Wolf(Ves?) In Wayne County, Mo

[vonreed]

I try to never flame anyone for shooting something when I don't know the circumstances. I like wolves, I used to "sponsor" is that is the correct term a pack of wolves, they send pictures and updates and you send them money, The Sawtooth Pack if I remember correctly, but that was several years ago. Having hunted and shot coyotes you don't always have the option of glassing them over and analyzing their appearance, sometimes its simply there he is "bang". Also size is not always apparent until you are close either or have something to compare it to. Bottom Line is he shot it, he apparently hasn't been charged by the MDC for shooting it, so I guess I would tend to give him a pass.

I Agree, it amazes me the witch hunt people get on on certain topics on here. It seems it's always the same ones. If it had been standing side by side with a coyote, it would be easy to tell. If he was calling for predators and had it come running in like coyotes do a lot of the time, it would be very difficult to tell the difference. Nobody has posted the circumstances on how it was killed. Why bash the guy?

[Riverwhy]

I believe the gentleman who shot the wolf should be issued a citation and should pay a fine. I also believe every mountain lion shooting incident should result in a fine. I do not know whether the fellow knew he was shooting a wolf or not. I suspect he did but maybe he can not identify game. I am not being harsh or hateful. I simply believe the conservation department needs to start sending the message to our fellow hunters that killing rare game is not acceptable.

If I go to the lake a keep a bunch of largemouth bass under 15 inches because I thought they were kentucky bass then I deserve a ticket. I might not be willfully breaking the law but I chose to kill game that I could not identify.

Lastly, the whole they might kill my steer argument is so silly. How many cattle have been killed in Missouri by wolves, lions or bears in your lifetime? Pretty easy answer.

I have cattle in Ozark county and I'm not exactly shivering in fear that some predator other than man is going to eat them.

However, I am a teaparty "wingnut" so my opinions are generally without merit.

[Feathers and Fins]

Von, the difference is VERY easy to tell apart, It would be like putting a Giant Poodle and a Standard next to eachother for a true dog on dog comparison, I have worked with both Coyotes and Wolves and even at distance you can tell. No we do not no the circumstances so I am giving the guy the benifit of the doubt, But it is ILLEGAL in Missouri to shoot a DOG

Shooting dogs is illegal

Although landowners have some recourse if dogs are injuring or killing livestock under Missouri Revised Statutes, Section 273.030, dogs that merely enter private property may not be killed. In fact, Section 578.012 provides penalties for intentionally killing a dog or other animal.

Anyone killing a dog under circumstances other than the narrow ones described above can expose themselves to significant legal difficulty. Those who kill dogs may be forced to pay restitution and/or face criminal charges. Because dogs are considered personal property, dog killings are investigated by local law enforcement authorities, not by conservation agents.

It is illegal for people to trespass on private property. Ethical hunters who use dogs do their best to keep them off property where dogs are not wanted, and should contact the property owner for permission to retrieve them when their dogs follow game onto such private property. The Conservation Department works with the Sporting Dog Association of Missouri and other groups to encourage legal and ethical hunting activities and to establish good relationships with private landowners.

As I said earlier in this post a Wolf could be mistaken for a Large Sheppard and in a state that it is illegal to shot dogs I do question the shooter as to why he would shot an animal the size of a Sheppard? The animal shot was 80lbs typical coyote is about 30lbs that is a major size difference. Either the animal was (A) Harassing or harming the landowners livestock, at which point he would have the right to protect them or ( He shot what for all purposes was an animal the size of a dog which unless was as by law was doing any actions in the regs that give him the right to shoot it He broke the law. Or © he did not properly identify his target and shot it, Missouris hunting regulations or a permissive sytem and as Wolf is not listed makes it Illegal to shoot them.

[MOPanfisher]

Again I haven't heard anything about MDC issuing a citation for the killing of the wolf, so I am going to assume they investigated it and decided it was a legitimate shooting or perhaps they simply decided to use some common sense. The individual did not try to hide it, brag it up or anything, he realized he had made a mistake and called MDC. Exactly as he should have. Since I was not there and know nothing beyond what was in that short story I am gonna trust in the Missouri Department of Conservation and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which have, as far as I know, declined to prosecute. Honestly I am not sure if the Grey Wolf is a protected species by USF&W or not, so they may not have the option. Generally the MDC is not shy about issuing citations so they maybe they know more than we do? YMMV

[ColdWaterFshr]

Again I haven't heard anything about MDC issuing a citation for the killing of the wold, so I am going to assume they investigated it and decided it was a legitimate shooting or perhaps they simply decided to use some common sense. The individual did not try to hide it, brag it up or anything, he realized he had made a mistake and called MDC. Exactly as he should have. Since I was not there and know nothing beyond what was in that short story I am gonna trust in the Missouri Department of Conservation and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which have, as far as I know, declined to prosecute. Honestly I am not sure if the Grey Wolf is a protected species by USF&W or not, so they may not have the option. Generally the MDC is not shy about issuing citations so they maybe they know more than we do? YMMV

You're right, generally they aren't shy about issuing citations for fishing or poaching or stuff within their norm. Wolves and mtn lions are so far outside their norm, and their track record on those critters is pretty much is they don't give a darn. I think they almost view them as not their jurisdiction and wish that they didn't have to deal with it, and especially anything involving a farmer and a big, bad wolf or lion. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Shoot first and ask questions later is perfectly acceptable in their mind. Sucks, but its true.

[MOPanfisher]

I suspect it is more of that they know if they write a citation and it goes to the judge who asks, "Sir why did you shoot that wolf/mountain lion", and the person answers "Judge it was after my chickens/sheep/dog/cat etc.,", whereupon the Judge asks the MDC Agent if he has any evidence to prove that is not the case, and when none is given the citation gets thrown out. Since they know they aren't going to win in court, they choose to be a little more gentle with the handling of the person who has done the shooting, and thus not drive them underground to the shoot/shove/shut up mentality. As long as the shooter reports the kill, and has some reason for it, at least the information and biological data is available to the MDC to track and study. I seem to recall a coon hunter who treed a mountain lion a couple years ago, if my memory is even close I believe he shot it out of the tree, tried to hide what had happened, but had told too many people. MDC investigated and cited him for shooting it.

[Wayne SW/MO]

It could have been attacking his livestock. Or maybe he just mistook it for a deer. Seems like many are fast to condemn a man without any facts.

Sorry JD, but you might as well add in all the things that could also look like a deer. Livestock, horse, dog, man, if there was a mistake, that's all the facts one needs.

I agree MOPanfisher.

[Al Agnew]

I tend to agree with MOpanfisher. Little chance of making a charge stick in a county court, so why bother? Agree also that not knowing the animal was not a coyote is no excuse. It's either a coyote or it's something illegal to shoot...dog or wolf. Anybody who shot a wolf mistaking it for a deer shouldn't have shot it, because just a tiny amount of time looking at it before shooting would have told them it wasn't a deer. Anybody who shot a wolf because they had to shoot fast shouldn't have shot, because the first thing a hunter should know is to positively ID something before you shoot it.

An inexperienced coyote hunter who hadn't seen or shot many coyotes could mistake a wolf for a coyote at a distance, if the wolf was of a color phase similar to a coyote. Any experienced coyote hunter wouldn't for more than a moment, though. Wolves are proportioned differently and move differently. Having watched a lot of wolves and coyotes in Yellowstone, I can say that no other wild canid moves like a wolf (nor do dogs, though some big dogs move more like wolves than coyotes do).

So really, I don't care what the circumstances were, the only excuse I'd accept for shooting it is if it appeared to be threatening livestock. Mistaken identity is no excuse.

Having said that...a genetic study should tell whether it was a wild wolf coming from somewhere else, or a wolf somebody turned loose when it didn't turn out to be the pet they expected. And I don't think it's practical to expect a wild wolf population to be viable in the Ozarks. Too many people and not enough really wild country.

[Feathers and Fins]

Al, I have to disagree with you on them not being able to live in the Ozarks, I know they could but the reason they wouldn't is people shooting them, Bears live here as do deer and many other critters. Man is the only thing that would stop them and its a shame. I know you have probably heard them at night in the Yellowstone and there is nothing on this planet that will stir a person deep down to the soul. To many it would be fear but to a few it would be spiritual. It is a shame people would kill them for no other reason than they are a wolf.

I use to try educating people on them but like with snakes or sharks the word strikes hatred and fear in to people and its to bad if they only understood how timid they can be or how much they will protect and defend and provide for the pack they might start seeing them in a different way. But when the Media from the Bards of old to the Modern Media has depicted them as evil its become ingrained in peoples mind. Bad PR.

[LunkerB]

It is unfortunate that a wolf was mistakenly shot, however, In Missouri NO coyote hunter expects to see a wolf. They aren't recognized as inhabiting MO. If the Discussion was made by MDC that they are here then MO hunters will look harder at the coyote. 80 lbs is small for a wolf and coyotes get over 30 lbs. The guys on here that are looking at a closeup of the wolves head are and saying even I knew it was a wolf should be working for mdc especially if their biologist were not sure after looking at it closeup. Coyote/wolf crosses are not that common but happen and can affect the regional size structure of coyotes making some bigger than coyotes one county over.