The Ramps

[Walcrabass]

O.K. Outdoors people,

We have had a discussion or two about the ramps being closed while the govt. was broke. Also one about the campgrounds being leased out and then the general public not being able to use the ramp at the campground unless they are camped there. Remember that many of us have bought additional "rights" to those ramps in the form of a yearly usage tag. Remember also that EVERYONE THAT PAYS TAXES BUILT THOSE RAMPS. I found out a few days ago that the Viney Creek campground on Table Rock has been taken over by the State of Missouri according to information I received. That is great because the Corp of Engineer department had closed it ( or was ask to close it by the state). The info I got said that the Corps would be closing other campgrounds/ramps/public use areas because of not being able to keep them up. The person that got this info went to Viney Creek to check things out ( Like the ramp etc.) and found out from the attendant at the entry shack. They also found out that they needed to purchase a "Use Tag" to use the ramp. O.K. no problem, the Corp tag is $30.00 per year right??? WRONG !!!! The tag you need to use the ramp is $30.00 all right but it is ONLY GOOD FOR VINEY CREEK !!!! Do you see where I am going??? We could feasibly be purchasing a $30.00 tag for each ramp we wanted to use if they were all closed/leasedout/taken over by another entity!!!! So I am going to ask one more time. Will you please write and call your Congressmen or Representatives or County Officials????? Please????

Maybe I am just an old guy with mental problems.....or maybe I just don't like paying for something TWICE and still not being able to use it. You know what they say though....Third time is a charm!!!!

Walcrabass

[denjac]

Good topic. Need to post this on the Table rock site. Good info.

[Old plug]

Agsin as I said before if you all do not like this then ban together and make some real big noise about it. You have news media ,flooding congress with demanding letters about it. You need to organize. you ned legal consultation with a lawyer. You need to be in a fighting frame of mind not a asking frame of mind. I am thinking the corp has over stepped its bounds. I would not be surprised if research would reveal some type of political connection between those who lease the ramp and campground and some local US politician.

Just remember YOU control this country not the jack asses we send to congress and the senate. '

[conorsixtakc]

Just remember YOU control this country not the jack asses we send to congress and the senate. '

Amen.

[Boobie]

Old plug nailed that one.... jack asses ,nailed that one too!!! I wonder......If we could just get some of OA's men of great standing to run for congress things could be fixed in no time. Free ramps with hot coffee when launching,fish cleaning station and cold refreshments when taking out. Any takers!!!!

[straw hat]

U. S. Congress initiated a similar test project on some southern Calif lakes about 10 years ago for evaluation. There was very little response from the public. They included $20 to $30 fees on each campground.That test project also included $10-15 launch fees EACH time you launch a boat. All the marinas were privatized on those lakes with a jump in their fees as well. It makes me think it was a 'success' as far as they were concerned and it is spreading east. Just a guess.

[Walcrabass]

Straw Hat,

Very glad to see you comment. I always appreciate your input. Here is the problem.... our Congress ( lawmakers, politicians, etc.) have evidently decided it is just fine to steal from the public. We have paid for these ramps and campgrounds from our tax dollars. Then abiding by their regulations have purchased additional use tags that "THEY" ( Whoever that may apply to ) said would allow us to use these facilities on a day use basis. Now they are taking some of them away from us. I liken this to buying a bag of Groceries at the store and then as you are leaving with them an employee meets you at the exit door and tells you that you will leave a portion of them at the store ( so they can sell them again). Now...... I have spoken to several people about this matter and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS TOLD ME THAT IT JUST PLAIN ISN'T RIGHT !!!! I guess those people in California are so use to putting up with all the immoral and weird things that seem to be in perpetual motion in that state that they are just numb and stopped complaining years ago. Not to mention the fact they their income might be 3 times what ours is in Missouri.

It kind of boils down to the fact that the Corp of Engineers is backing out of keeping their end of the bargain that THEY initiated and at the same time trying to make income for themselves by leasing something that WE PAID FOR !!!!! How many of us would buy a new car only to have legislation make it illegal for us to use because it had been leased out to someone else.......AFTER WE PAID FOR IT !!!!!!

There is absolutely not one angle to view this from that even remotely views this matter as being justified.

Just one more thought.....what would you think of the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave permitting everyday ordinary citizens to pay for something that would then be put out of their financial reach and only the RICH being able to use it??? What the heck...... why don't we just have the taxpayers start buying elaborate homes for the Ultra Rich. This stuff just has to stop !!!!! Surely there is still someone in the "Powerful Portion of Government" that has retained the sense of right and wrong that God has commanded us to have. I am sorry but myself and all others that have discussed this matter are just putridly sick. I pray some politician sees this forum and takes up the matter on the part of the people. If none of them represent us rightfully then we had better start praying for God himself to intervene as I am pretty sure what his decision on this would be.

I'm right and EVERYONE knows it,

WALCRABASS

[Ranger Dave]

I guess I have a different opinion on the ramp fees. I don't see the ramp fee as a charge to use the ramp but a charge to maintain and operate the ramp. I agree that the ramp was built with my tax dollars and indirectly I am part owner of the ramp. But just like our cars, boats, and houses, the expenses don't stop with the initial purchase. I think we would all agree that the ramp would not be fit to use after a few years if someone didn't come and clean the rest rooms, maintain the loading dock boards in the loading ramp, and to move the loading ramp in and out to adjust for water level. Yes we could simply raise our taxes to pay for these services but the government has proven that they can't manage things like this so the tax increase would be far more than a ramp fee of $3.

I just went to the St. Louis Arch on vacation last week. My tax dollars helped build the Arch but they still charge $10 per person to let me take a tour and ride the elevator. There were so many people willing to pay the $10 that there was a 2 hour wait all day long. Is it fair to charge the tax payers a fee to take a tour? Someone has to run the place, pay for the electricity, and keep the place clean. What would the Arch look like today if we just built it and let everyone come for free? There would be no one around to coordinate the place and it would rapidly become a dump and not a place to visit. Are the Corp ramps any different?

Do I like paying $3 at the ramp? No I don't. I usually pay the $30 fee every year just for convenience even if I don't make the 10 trips to break even. However, I don't like the alternative either. I like going to a nice clean ramp with a loading dock. I have used gravel ramps with no loading docks (like at Alrich) and I don't like it. I have also used the ramps at Mutton Creek which are private and the bumper rails on the loading dock were half ripped off and there were exposed nail heads scratching my boat. I would gladly pay $3 per trip to use a nice ramp like at Cedar Ridge or High Point.

Now I agree that the ramp fee needs to be fair. $3 to $5 does not seem unfair to me. I spend more than that on a trip through McDonalds on my way to the lake. If the ramp fee became unfair then I would definitely be writing my congressman. Lake of the Ozarks is a private lake and I have paid a $5 fee to use their ramps.

[Walcrabass]

Ranger Dave,

For some reason I get the idea that you think myself and others do not want to pay a ramp fee. That is totally incorrect. We just want to pay the fee for the Corp built ramps ( remember with our tax dollars) so that we can use THE CORP BUILT RAMPS !!! We do not want to pay the $30.00 fee to use the Corp built ramps and then pay again to another entity that has leased the ramp from the corp. We want them to keep their "deal" with the citizens as it was originally intended. We do not believe it is ethical ( maybe even illegal ) to lease it out to make income for the Corp and thus cause the citizens to pay for it a third time. It is very simple:

1. Pay tax dollars to build it. No Problem.

2. Charge a day or annual use fee to maintain the ramps etc. for the people that paid to build it. No Problem.

3. Lease out to another entity what was paid for and maintained with additional monies by the people who paid for it originally. Hence making additional income for the Corp and thus causing the leased area to be off limits to the people who paid for it and maintained it by abiding by the rules and regulations that they set forth ( unless of course they pay again to the new entity whatever they demand). NO WAY !!!!!!!!

ARE WE CLEAR ON THE MATTER NOW????

If there is anyone else that does not clearly understand please post your comments and myself or others who are reading this forum will try to politely point out the immorality of this endeavor.

Like I said.....I am right and EVERYONE KNOWS IT !!!!!

Walcrabass

[powerdive]

All het up over hearsay. I am part of the "everyone" and I don't know that you're right--just agitated. Why don't YOU contact an actual authority and get a REAL, definitive answer as to what's happening, in writing, and post it here, WITHOUT all the insinuations and personal conclusions? Then perhaps we can have a civilized discussion, and if the sky really is falling, then we can agree to do something about it.