Shadow Bass From Norfork. Definite Maybe

[Ham]

. I've got Shadow Bass taken care of for 2015. Easy once you fish where they live.

[dtrs5kprs]

Dang. Now I have to go look through all of my rock bass pics.

[Terrierman]

. I've got Shadow Bass taken care of for 2015. Easy once you fish where they live.

Caught it on a ned too didn't you? That's a nice one.

[Ham]

Caught it on a ned too didn't you? That's a nice one.

Nope. Zig Jig 1/8 oz. olive and Orange if I remember correctly.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Cheif,

In the Elk river system are there northern rock bass, shadow or both? I find it difficult to distinguish between the northern and shadow.

For example is this a shadow bass or northern rock bass?

20150118_134110.jpg

I'm calling Shadow also. I can't say that I have ever caught a Northern in Elk.

Which brings up an interesting analysis. As a kid hitting the rivers, mainly Spring and Center and a few local smaller ones, I remember using smaller grubs and worms (before Ned stuck his name on them), Beetle Spins and the like, and catching Northerns. Not a ton of them but some here and there. I didn't target them, I was just a kid fishing. But I can distinctly remember that they did not have the blotches like the Shadow. They were just bronze in color, their eyes seemed to really bug out and they were the most beautiful red color. I can remember dad explaing how they got their name.

If I had been catching Shadows like pictured, I would have remembered that. Once I started fishing more creeks and rivers in Newton and Mac counties, I quickly noticed the difference. What a gorgeous fish the Shadow is! They look like something from the Tropics!

This discussion has sparked my interest to go back to those areas of my youth and target Rock bass and see what I find.

[Al Agnew]

The photos posted show the difficulties in telling shadow bass from northern rock bass, I think. Chief's photo definitely looks like a shadow bass to me, but tjulianc's and Ham's look somewhat more like northern rock bass to me, not as distinctly shadow bass as the ones I'm used to seeing on my side of the state.

Here are photos I've taken of all three species, all of about the same size.

This first one is obviously an Ozark bass, taken from Crooked Creek:

This one is a shadow bass from the Jacks Fork, but the spot pattern is a little more continuous than what I usually see, especially on the St. Francis:

Now look at this northern rock bass, probably from Huzzah Creek: Not a huge amount of difference between it and the shadow bass, but the spots are more regular and a little more prominent. Again...spots on every scale from the lateral line to the belly equals northern rock bass. Spots on most scales but not on all of them; the areas that are lighter in between the blotches usually have lighter spots or not spots...shadow bass. Spots widely scattered, Ozark bass.

Chief, I can't tell you the sources, since I didn't write them down the last time I googled all this stuff. I agree though that even the supposed authoritative sources don't agree with each other all the time. Eberle and Tomelleri say, however: "The shadow bass, however, will hybridize extensively with the northern rock bass, and widespread transplants of the two species have consequently made some identifications difficult. Semblances of both species or their hybrids are thought to occur in northeast Oklahoma and in the southeast Missouri Ozarks."

Robison and Buchanan, in "Fishes of Arkansas" show that shadow bass are common in all the streams that are tributaries of the Arkansas River. In the distribution of northern rock bass in Arkansas, they say this: "The rock bass is actually an introduced species found only in the Illinois and Neosho river drainages in northwestern Arkansas. Cashner and Suttkus (1978) reported some of the early stocking attempts for rock bass. It is known that A. rupestris was present in the Neosho drainage of southwestern Missouri as early as 1888, but the source of this stock is uncertain. T. M. Buchanan and R. C. Cashner are investigating the possible hybridization between the introduced A. rupestris and the native A. ariommus in the Illinois River drainage of northwestern Arkansas."

[Chief Grey Bear]

I just sent you some info. Probably the most credible I have read on this subject.

I don't think I have pics of them but, I have caught some that have the "freckles" on the gills, nose and lips also. I have only seen it a handfull of times though.

[Al Agnew]

Yeah, I just finished reading what you sent. One thing I noticed was the similarity in things like scale counts and fin ray counts between shadow bass and northern rock bass, while the Ozark bass were different. Another little interesting tidbit was that according to the biologists it was common to take rock bass from the White River system and stock them in other streams in Missouri, but except for those few collected just across the divide in the upper Sac River system, no Ozark bass have been collected anywhere but in the upper White River system.

It seems to me that the large dark blotches on shadow bass are one of the things that tells you it's a shadow bass. However, I've seen northern rock bass and Ozark bass that had fairly prominent blotches. And I believe that the young of all three species are usually heavily blotched. It's like the shadow bass keep those juvenile characteristics into adulthood.

It also seems that the authors of that report believe that gradations between shadow bass and northern rock bass are common.

One thing that the guidebooks are in agreement about is that shadow bass don't get as big as either of the other two. The biggest goggle-eye I've caught or seen caught were in Saline Creek, a small Mississippi tributary with northern rock bass, many years ago, and one memorable specimen I saw a kid catch in Maramec Spring Branch the opening day of trout season many years ago as well. That fish was easily 13 inches long. But I used to catch some pretty big ones in Whitewater River, which should have been shadow bass.

[Chief Grey Bear]

It also seemed to validate what we both have been saying about stocking.

It specifically pointed to stocking in your area and named numerous times the Black, St. Francis and another stream as having integrates. But it was never mentioned for anywhere else.

The part about the State using the Ozark as brood stock was a surprise. I wish it would have listed when, where and for how long this project lasted.

Did you notice that they seemed to call the Shadows of SWMO Neosho's? Not right out but always the Neosho basin and such.

[trythisonemv]

Sorry about the war mouth being lumped in there but mdc sites it as being a similar fish to the goggleye and it's in the same order and family so I always assumed that they were cousins and evenly distributed. However it turns out that they primarily live in southeastern Missouri with populations lightly spread throughout southern Missouri. Also, I didn't realize that rock shadow,and Ozark were different others than their body of waterinhabited! I still believe I have caught at least two kind in same place on niangua. Even have pointed out distinct pattern differences to my father only to have him say "goggleye" in exclamation. Lol good old boy