bs1827 Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I still consider myself a beginner when it comes to fly fishing. I've been at it for a few years now, but I feel like I'm to the point where I'm starting to go back through and fine tune some of the basics. This year I want to focus a lot on presentation rather than putting so much emphasis on pattern, color, etc. I figured one place that I need to focus on is my knot selection. Currently, I have been using a loop to loop connection between fly line and tapered leader, surgeon's knot to attach tippet to leader, and a simple clinch knot to attach tippet/leader to the fly. My questions are as follows: Does anyone ever use the improved clinch when attaching tippet to the fly? I use this frequently when I'm fishing with heavier line on baitcasting gear, but I've been told that an improved clinch weakens your smaller diameter tippet. Is there any truth in this? What flies/situations do you prefer to use a non-slip loop knot? I realize this allows for a more free-swinging action that works well for topwater flies and big streamers. When tying up hopper droppers do you tie to the bend of the hook on your top fly or do you prefer to tie in your tippet above your hopper? I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse with these questions. I did search to see if I could find them in older posts. I'd love to hear any input that you guys have. Daryk Campbell Sr 1
Ham Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Yes, I use a cinch knot ; I've never felt like this lead to more breakoffs. 7X tippit leads to more breakoffs for me. none, bend of hook. Every Saint has a past, every Sinner has a future. On Instagram @hamneedstofish
Al Agnew Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I use a blood knot to attach tippet to leader. I like the surgeon's knot only for connecting two lines with significant differences in diameter. I use the improved clinch knot for tying small flies to the end of tippets. But I don't follow all the directions. They always recommend using five loops, but if it's a small fly I'll usually only use two or at most three loops. Never found there to be much difference in the knot reliability with fewer loops. Same thing with the blood knot, by the way...the directions always say to use five loops on each line, and I only use four, sometimes as few as three. I always find it to be a pain to tie tippet to the bend of the hook when using a dropper. I like to keep it quick and simple, so all I do is tie on the hopper or other top fly with a palomar knot, and make sure there is a long tag end, long enough to serve as the tippet for my dropper fly. Then I just tie the dropper fly to the end of it. You might think that, since it's the same tippet attached to the upper fly as to the dropper, you're more likely to lose both flies when you hang up the dropper fly. But seems like 95% of the time the line will break just on the "below" side of the upper fly, and you end up with the upper fly still attached but no dropper line below the knot. On larger single flies, I just use the palomar instead of the improved clinch. Daryk Campbell Sr 1
fishinwrench Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I use a loop to loop (perfection on both) for Leader>Tippet so I don't eat up my leader replacing tippets. A leader usually lasts me a whole season. I use a Davy knot (figure 8) for small fly's, and a NS Loop for larger fly's (#12+) and streamers. I never fish droppers but if I did I'd do it like Al does, or I'd whip a dropper loop into the leader above my tippet loop...and loop to loop another short tippet onto it. Tying to the bend always seemed like a stupid idea to me, but a ton of guys do just fine with that system so whadowyno. A truly GOOD way to dropper a fly doesn't exist IMO, so that's why I never do it.
sean c Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 NS loop for all unweighted streamers. I use for weighted streamers but I don't think it matters a clinch would be fine I just trust the NS loop more. Regular clinch for everything else and I tie my droppers off the bend of lead hook.
ness Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Line to leader: nail knotted Surgeon's loop to loop Leader to tippet: Surgeon's Tippet to fly: improved clinch Dropper: on the hook bend with improved clinch Ham 1 John
Ham Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I will use a tippit ring from time to time. Tie the ring onto the leader with a clinch knot and then tie tippit onto the ring and save my leader length. Every Saint has a past, every Sinner has a future. On Instagram @hamneedstofish
bs1827 Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Thanks for all of the responses everyone! I'm surprised by the number of people tying the dropper directly to the bend in the hook. I always thought it could potentially interfere with hookups on the topwater fly.
Jim Elam Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Your setup is sound. Others will have different preferences, but yours is sound and will work well. I used a handshake at fly to tapered or hand tied leader for years, and finally came to the conclusion that nail knots are not as difficult to tie as they seem, and I just like the smoother connection that they produce better that the loop to loop. I usually use 1-3 wt gear only, that may be why. It is not superior, but I like it better, so I use it. I used the blood knot for years at the leader to tippet, or to build leader, and I can tell you that it is inferior to the double surgeon's knot for the leader to tippet connection in terms of strength. DS is faster, easier, and less prone to failure. There is not a significant bend in the line at the knot. That is bunk. I use a fixed loop knot for streamers and presentations that depend on action. I even think it helps me get more takes night fishing streamers. May be all in my head, who knows... Cinch is a fine knot if tied properly because it is easy and not prone to operator error. Just remember that fine line requires a few more twists and extra care when tightening. IMO 14lbs test = 6-7, 6 lb test 7-8, 2 lb test 9-10 IMO. Smaller diameter line is more likely to slip in my opinion. Also heats up easily on tightening, so tighten slowly after moistening. I mostly midge these days, and I like the Davy knot or one of its variations for that. When properly executed, it is fast, easy, and secure as long as you cinch it down and pull it tight (and recheck from time to time). I've used that knot in Alaska on fish to 20 lbs without issues. I sometimes tie at the bend on H/D. Out west you can get away with foam in the body of your dry fly a little more often, and that works well with a tie in at the bend. I often use a Davy knot at the hook bend (fast and secure). Dropper midges usually do well like this as well. For heavier nymphs that might pull the stern of the dry fly down, I will tie on at the hook eye or simply abandon the dry in favor of an indicator fly. A size 12 bright indicator fly will act as a teaser and draw lots of looks, frequently allowing a trout to notice the nymph and induce a take ( very effective with the midge pupa imitations). I will also get the occasional take on an indicator fly itself. I usually tie these with foam and an elk or moose wing and a 12 lb Mason mono loop for a tie in point. This will catch the "wary wild western trout" as well as stockers in the local tailwaters equally well. If you don't midge, you need to try it. I would recommend the video "Bugs of the underworld" to get a handle on how you need to make the fly look in the water column, and the book " The flyfisher's playbook: A systematic approach to Nymph Fly Fishing" which will help you develop practical techniques to achieve great presentation. These two resources are efficient and well thought out. Neither is colored with the clever prose that so richly graced the pages of some of the classic books on the subject of presentation, but they are full of useful real world info that will help any fisherman who uses a fly rod. Good luck. You can actually rig a two fly setup like a drop shot if both are subsurface presentations. That works pretty well with dead drift or down and across swinging. I have never really felt like going to all the trouble to set up a high / low double rig like Watton would advocate. I am just too lazy and can usually catch plenty of fish who keeping things simple. Jim "The obsessions of others are opaque to the unobsessed, and thus easy to mock...If we are lucky we all have at least one."
bs1827 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Posted February 9, 2015 Jim, Thank you for all of the input! I'm really trying to focus on improving my nymph and midge fishing this year. I'll take a look at the book and video you've recommended.
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