Discussion's

[Chief Grey Bear]

5 hours ago, Mitch f said:

Chief, you asked me if fishing is better in other states, I answered your question yes. I love my home state, we have great fishing but it could be better, it's most certainly not as good for smallmouth as other states. Why are you so defensive? There's no argument here...

But I know you love arguing for no reason.

Defensive? Arguing?

Are we reading the same posts?

 

[Chief Grey Bear]

On November 4, 2015 at 10:09:07 PM, Al Agnew said:

"World class"...I've fished a number of world class smallmouth streams (forget lakes).  John Day River, Oregon--100-200 fish days common, with 5-15 of those fish over 18 inches, and top end size about 21 inches.  Upper Mississippi and tributaries--20-30 fish is a good day, but nearly all of them will be over 15 inches, and probably half will be 18-20 inches, top end size 21 inches but a 21 inch fish up there will be thick-bodied and over 5 pounds.  St. Regis River, New York--it's seasonal, May through June for the most part as fish come up out of the St. Lawrence to spawn.  100 fish days are the usual, with a lot of those fish in the 18-21 inch class, more than half of them on decent days.  22 inch top end.  Penobscot River, Maine--if I could catch 20 or so, with more than half of them over 18 inches, on a day when the river was flooded, I would love to see it when it's normal level.

Those areas have one thing in common--they are lightly fished.  I would not expect the typical Ozark stream to ever be as lightly fished.  So I don't expect the average Ozark stream to produce that kind of numbers of bigger fish. 

 

With all due respect, I have to disagree. One can hire any number of guides, like I'm sure you did, to fish any of those waters. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are not great waters to fish. There is a reason they have the reputation that they do. But I would not call them lightly fished. 

And other than the JD, all are east of the Mississippi River. Nobody mentioned any states west of the big muddy. Could being in the western fringe of the native range have any bearing? Maybe. Maybe not. 

I do think there is quite a contrast in the size and flow of those rivers you mentioned and those of the typical Ozarks. And I think there in lies a major factor. 

And that is not to say some Ozark rivers don't compare. A few come to mind. 

[Chief Grey Bear]

Just for info 

Tennessee

11 lbs 15 ozDale Hollow Reservoirunknown7/9/1955

Alabama10 lbs 8 ozWheeler Dam TailwaterOwen F. Smith10/8/1950

North Carolina10 lbs 0 ozHiwassee ReservoirArchie Lampkin6/1/1951

Ohio9 lbs 8 oz23.5″Lake ErieRandy Van Dam6/16/1993

South
Carolina9 lbs 7 ozLakeJocasseeTerry Dodson2001

Michigan9
lbs 4 oz27.25″Long LakeW.F. Shoemaker1906

West Virginia9 lbs 12 oz24.25″South BranchDavid Lindsay1971

Wisconsin9 lbs 1 ozIndian Lakeunknown6/21/1950

California9 lbs 1 ozClair Engle LakeTim Brady3/20/1976

Pennsylvania8 lbs 8 ozScotts Run LakeRobert T. Steelman1997

Kentucky8 lbs 7.36 ozLaurel River LakeCoolie Williams5/16/1998

Maryland8 lbs 4 ozLiberty ReservoirGary Peters10/4/1974

New York8 lbs 4 ozLake ErieAndrew C. Kartesz6/4/1995

Massachusetts8 lbs 2 ozWachusett ReservoirBarbara Sasen1991

Washington8 lbs 12 ozColumbia River - Hanford ReachRay Wonacott4/23/1966

Virginia8 lbs 1 ozNew RiverDonald S. Eaton, Jr3/12/2003

Idaho8 lbs 0.5 oz22″Dworshak ReservoirDan Steigers1995

Maine8 lbs 0 ozThompson LakeGeorge Dyer1970

Minnesota8 lbs 0 ozWest Battle LakeJohn Creighton1948

Utah7 lbs 6 oz22″Midview Reservoir (Lake Borham)Alan Iorg1996

Arkansas7 lbs 5 ozBull Shoals LakeAcie Dickerson4/1/1969

Indiana7 lbs 4 ozTwin LakeDana Yoder1992

New
Jersey7 lbs 2 ozRound Valley ReservoirCarol Marciniak1990

Georgia7 lbs 2 ozLake ChatugeJack Hall3/28/1973

Missouri7 lbs 2 ozStockton LakeKevin S. Clingan12/18/1994

Mississippi7 lbs 15 ozPickwick Lake - Yellow Creek ArmThomas Wilbanks1/24/1987

Texas7 lbs 14.88 oz23″Lake MeredithTimothy Teague3/13/1998

New
Hampshire7 lbs 14.5 oz23.25″Goose PondFrancis H. Lord8/1/1970

Oregon7 lbs 14 ozHenry Hagg LakeKevin Silver10/8/2000

Oklahoma7 lbs 12 oz18.25″Lake TexomaAaron Fridrich3/22/2003

Connecticut7 lbs 12 ozShenipsit LakeJoseph Mankauskas Jr.1980

Iowa7 lbs 12 oz22.75″West Okoboji LakeRick Gray9/1990

Arizona7 lbs 0.96 oz22.75″Roosevelt LakeDennis K. Barnhall3/18/1988

Illinois6 lbs 7 ozstrip mine lakeMark Samp3/26/1985

Montana6 lbs 6.4 oz21.25″Flathead RiverKen Riska4/16/2000

Kansas6 lbs 6 oz21.25″Milford ReservoirJimmy Gilreath4/26/1997

South
Dakota6 lbs 2 ozLewis & Clark LakeLoran Moore10/3/1999

New Mexico6 lbs 14 oz22″Navajo LakeDavid L. Young5/15/1999

Vermont6 lbs 12 ozLake ChamplainGeorge Carlson1978

Nebraska6 lbs 1.5 ozMerritt LakeWally Allison5/17/1978

North Dakota5 lbs 9 ozLake SakakaweaAndrew Mark1999

Rhode Island5 lbs 15 oz22″N/A0

Colorado5 lbs 12 oz21″Navajo ReservoirCarl Dewey1993

Nevada5 lbs 1 oz20″South Fork ReservoirTom R. Grant2000

Wyoming5 lbs .94 oz21″Flaming Gorge ReservoirBubba O’Neil2003

Hawaii4 lbs 2.24 ozManoa StreamBrian Suyeoka3/25/1997

Delaware4 lbs 15 ozBrandywine RiverJerry Proffitt5/29/1989
 

[Harps]

What does "World Class" mean? I would suggest it's a  subjective term and like a lot of things today, over-used.

Also, I notice on your list Chief, that most of those records are from lakes and not streams.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Hell Jeff, I don't think people can agree to what World Class is. Kinda funny to read this thread again and compare it to current postings. 

And you're right. The majority of records came from lakes. But that's not important. 

[Al Agnew]

I'm sticking with my original statement...I don't think Ozark streams are capable of producing the numbers of big fish that are common on most of the "world class" streams I mentioned back there.. Nor would I want that.. As I said, I'd prefer my big fish to be a challenge, with plenty of smaller ones to keep things interesting. BUT...I believe the Ozark streams are capable of producing 2 to 3 times the number of fish over 20 inches that they do now, giving the angler 2-3 times the chances of catching one on a given day. Instead of catching one or two over 20 per year, I'd be catching 2-6 that size, given my usual success rate. And that would also mean 2-3 or maybe a bit better times the chances of catching fish over 18 inches. As good as the Meramec and a couple other places have been the last month or so, we're still talking about fish that are mostly under 20 inches, caught mostly be expert anglers who had figured out a late winter/early spring pattern and were catching fish in a few specific spots.

And trust me, I KNOW how great these streams already are, and how great they could be with a little less crowding and a lot more appreciation among the majority of river users for them as the truly world class rivers they are, instead of simply looking at them as places to get drunk and act like idiots.

[fishinwrench]

I haven't caught that many river smallmouth 20+, but the 15-18 inchers seem to be more fun anyway.   They crush baits/flys, run hard and jump high.   All of the really big 20+ Smallies I've caught were heavy and pulled hard....but kinda lazy too.  Lacking all the energy and acrobatics (fun) of the slightly smaller ones.    

I don't need to catch a bunch of big ol' fat brown slobs to put me in a great mood.