Ned Rig Setup Questions

[dtrs5kprs]

13 minutes ago, timinmo said:

Can one of you experienced Ned users explain to me why I don't want to "feel" whats going on?

Absolutely.If you are trying to feel your bait, you end up doing several things.

First, no matter how hard you try not to, you will overwork the bait. It doesn't need extra action. Leave it be.

Second, you will eventually end up fishing it on a tight line. This absolutely cuts down the inherent, natural appearance of the elaztech under water. That cuts down on bites.

Third, you will 100% end up taking the bait away from fish in the process of feeling around for them. Hard example comes from sight fishing. I did a little more of that last spring, kind of by happenstance. Most of the time I would get the little guy into a bed, watch the fish, and they would just swim off, maybe 8 or 10 feet off and tighten up. Never saw them flare, never felt them. On a bed or not, you have to develop that sense of when they have it. Slowing down is a part of that.

It's hard to quantify, but I've fished it slack line and "no feel" with good fishermen in the back feeling for it. From those experiences, I would put it at 4:1 average, up to 7-10:1 on tough days, in favor of no feel. When those same guys switched, including one good TR guide, they caught up fast.

That's why so many wives and kids lay waste to it from the backseat. They don't over think it.

[Guest]

I tried fishing the Ned on a cheap shimano rod today & it was not the same as my falcon low riders or Cara spinning rods. 

Spending the money on a quality rod really makes a difference. 

[JF660R]

Yeah, that Hellbent no.8 might be on my short list. The 20 year old rod in the corner was actually a Zebco that originally came with a Shakespeare reel. Now it's got a brand new President... strung it up with some 10lb braid to fluor leader tonight. Gives me a dedicated ned rod for now. I always hate cutting off a ned to tie on something else, I know I'm gonna tie it right back on.

[Guest]

You have to let the bait hit bottom & then wait long enough for them to swim out & turn on the bait before they bite it. In gin clear water streams I've watched them take as long as a count to 10 before they inhaled the bait. It had to be fully dead sticked or they wouldn't touch it. Move it & they swim off. It takes some getting used to. Kinda the same concept or letting a jerkbait pause for long periods of time. Usually when you pick up the slack, they're swimming off with the bait. 

[Ham]

On 3/16/2017 at 2:12 PM, dtrs5kprs said:

By long leader, I mean enough that the knot is on the spool. I don't want that well rope anywhere close to the fish.

Not sold on Fluorocarbon on spinning yet as a mainline nor as a leader. I've never read the explanation for why I NEED fluorocarbon as leader. I've done better with mono or copoly as leader. My beloved Nanofil provides the sensitivity and casting distance and the copoly lets me re-tie or change lures easily and less expensively. I put on a new leader when I get down to 18 inches or so maybe 12 in a pinch. I'm not sure the fish care at all. 

I usually run 6 lb leader but might jump up to 8 lb if throwing around a lot of cover. 

[Ham]

20 hours ago, dtrs5kprs said:

Absolutely.If you are trying to feel your bait, you end up doing several things.

First, no matter how hard you try not to, you will overwork the bait. It doesn't need extra action. Leave it be.

Second, you will eventually end up fishing it on a tight line. This absolutely cuts down the inherent, natural appearance of the elaztech under water. That cuts down on bites.

Third, you will 100% end up taking the bait away from fish in the process of feeling around for them. Hard example comes from sight fishing. I did a little more of that last spring, kind of by happenstance. Most of the time I would get the little guy into a bed, watch the fish, and they would just swim off, maybe 8 or 10 feet off and tighten up. Never saw them flare, never felt them. On a bed or not, you have to develop that sense of when they have it. Slowing down is a part of that.

It's hard to quantify, but I've fished it slack line and "no feel" with good fishermen in the back feeling for it. From those experiences, I would put it at 4:1 average, up to 7-10:1 on tough days, in favor of no feel. When those same guys switched, including one good TR guide, they caught up fast.

That's why so many wives and kids lay waste to it from the backseat. They don't over think it.

1) Some of us are thump junkies and want to feel the bite. I'm able to feel bites with a lot of slack thanks to Nanofil and good gear. 

2) overworking the bait is a very valid point and something to watch out for. I fish a variety of retreives and try to repeat what works. I really doubt I would catch 4 times more fish going "no touchy" full time. I use a lot of controlled slack and dead sticking. I don't feel a lot of my bites, but I enjoy the ones I feel.

3) it is impossible to overstate the impact of being in front of the boat. Two equally skilled fisherman using the same bait and similar techniques , the guy in front is going to out catch the guy in the back 2:1

Full props to Dave for nudging me into trying the Ned rig again and for lots and lots of great advice along the way. You won't go wrong following his advice to the letter. IMO, he has worked out the best jig head in existence. Any contrarian comments by me while honest and heartfelt shouldn't be taken as anything more than nitpicking or the ramblings of a misguided heretic. 

[mixermarkb]

Ham, what leader to line knot are you using? Maybe it's just my fat fingers and lack of knot tying skill, but I haven't found one I trust with an angry 3-4 pound smallie with 6 pound line.

[Ham]

2 hours ago, mixermarkb said:

Ham, what leader to line knot are you using? Maybe it's just my fat fingers and lack of knot tying skill, but I haven't found one I trust with an angry 3-4 pound smallie with 6 pound line.

Alberto is the best that I have learned. There may be better ones. It's long and slim and flies through the guides. 

Uni to uni works fine, but bumps through the guides which is irritating and must rob casting distance and worries me that the knot might be damaged eventually.

i have also used the surgeons knot where you add a third pass through. It is easier and really seems good enough. I've been playing with it in the trout world. I might use it some in real fishing. 

really though with the right rod and right drag setting, 6 lb should be plenty for ANY smallie in the world. 

I have caught 3 monster carp on 6 pound line. They pulled hard and long. 

[mixermarkb]

The only time I get really nervous is when I'm landing a fish. I hate seeing that leader knot hanging around out there. I'm much more comfortable having a long enough leader that it's all the way on the spool when I'm ready to grab the line to land the fish if I need to.

I'll try and learn the Alberto. I've been using uni-uni. I really do like the nanofil, it does cast amazingly well, and no twist ever is great. 

[dtrs5kprs]

24 minutes ago, mixermarkb said:

The only time I get really nervous is when I'm landing a fish. I hate seeing that leader knot hanging around out there. I'm much more comfortable having a long enough leader that it's all the way on the spool when I'm ready to grab the line to land the fish if I need to.

I'll try and learn the Alberto. I've been using uni-uni. I really do like the nanofil, it does cast amazingly well, and no twist ever is great. 

Agreed. Another good reason for a long leader. I know how much pressure I can put on straight 6# FC, less confident when I add the braid's low stretch and higher test as a variable.

I started using the Albright knot last year. Didn't break one on a fish, did break some pulling on trees and rocks. I fumble around with fancy knots, especially when I'm alone and it's cold and wet. So far I've been able to manage that one better.