WHY DO WE NEED ORGANIZATIONS?

[Chief Grey Bear]

10 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

Oh no, I completely understand the conservation value groups like DU and others have, generally.  I'm curious what  conservation value the American Carp association has.

 

I guess I should've been more specific.

THEIR hoodie is in color AND it's only $25!

AND unlike those uppity well-heeled carp guys, they sell coozies!

Hell you can't even get a sticker from the MSA. And less conservation value. 

[SpoonDog]

...hoodies and stickers should be the brown M&Ms of conservation organizations.

[Flysmallie]

20 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

   Nice! 

  I am glad you are keeping this along the line of an organization. We must be careful not to hijack and change or manipulate the thread. I know I m going to be more careful doing this. Do you need and bowfishing arrows Ronnie? I still have a bunch from my bow fishing hey day. Some of these are promised to MoPanfisher but you can have some also. 

 

Ive got to sell my Olympic recurve first so I can get a proper bowfishing setup. There are a lot of good ones in area lakes that I'm going to start eradicating. 

[BilletHead]

6 minutes ago, Flysmallie said:

 

Ive got to sell my Olympic recurve first so I can get a proper bowfishing setup. There are a lot of good ones in area lakes that I'm going to start eradicating. 

          Let me know when you are ready for arrows. Leave a few for fly fishermen and chummers. Selective harvest. 

  Just thought of another place I belong. I actually think it has been the best place to belong, OAF! and I have the stickers to prove it! Go team OAF!

BilletHead

[MoCarp]

1 hour ago, BilletHead said:

The BilletHead is a proud life member of trout unlimited,

so you ARE technically a supporter of non-native invasive fish in Missouri.....don't hate on me its the ICNU

 

52 minutes ago, Flysmallie said:

I just joined the Bowfishers Association. It's free by the way and I encourage everyone to join. 

here I posted a pic of their t shirt I found below.....nice guys....

38 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

 I'm curious what  conservation value the American Carp association has.

AND unlike those uppity well-heeled carp guys, they sell coozies!

I guess drinking and Bfing goes hand in hand....explains the fish points getting shot into docks FFS

35 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

. Won some bowfishing tourneys when Belonging to the Chigger diggers. Oh those were the days! When there were no limits on carp, buffalo and gar. We used to load a full sized pickup bed to over flowing with legal fish. Spread them into farmers fields to fertilize. They were happy and we were happy and the crops flourished! 

   BilletHead

we all knew you are a Bfer..its why all the hate....its ok..you'll still be able to Bf in places..just not in SOME places..and that REALLY whizzes you guys off...I am sure when they put the trophy regs in Taney a like number of people got salty too...but in time you will be ok with any new carp regs too....

As a side note the BAA is always trying to add more fish they can stab list. perhaps you can join up to add bass walleyes blue and flathead cats or your fav paddlefish!  

 

 

[BilletHead]

          MoCarp said,

"so you ARE technically a supporter of non-native invasive fish in Missouri.....don't hate on me its the ICNU "

    Again you are twisting things. I said I prefer to catch fish in their respective native areas when I can travel. I am making the best of what we have here in Missouri. Trout are not native but I would not call them invasive. They have specific things they need to survive. Tail waters and Springs here in Missouri. Unlike Carp which you say can adapt and live about anywhere.

 MoCarp said,

"we all knew you are a Bfer..its why all the hate....its ok..you'll still be able to Bf in places..just not in SOME places..and that REALLY whizzes you guys off...I am sure when they put the trophy regs in Taney a like number of people got salty too...but in time you will be ok with any new carp regs too.... "

  Hate? That is a strong word and I never said hate. Another thing you are twisting. I said I do not dislike carp, I dislike what they do being invasive. Wizzes who off? Who are you speaking about? I gave up bowfishing many moons ago. Too much of a mess. I unlike all you lump in one category disposed of my fish. Never shoot and release. I actually ate the grass carp, they are very good. Had a needy family that would take some. The rest went to fertilizer. Now if a guy wants to bow fish I am all for it. I can see native fish in a limit to protect the species. As for carp take all you want.

  BilletHead 

[MoCarp]

4 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

I am making the best of what we have here in Missouri. Trout are not native but I would not call them invasive.

Not my call. I don't classify any trout as "invasive" but naturalized just like common carp...all 3 and LMB as well are list listed in the top 10 most invasive species in the world...call them up and complain

 

Quote

 

BROWN TROUT

"This trout species may be a favorite among fishermen, but it's not necessarily a favorite among other fish. Brown trout are originally native to Europe, North Africa and western Asia but today can be found all over the world. It was part of an aquaculture trend that started in the mid-1800s in Europe and has been moved around the world ever since as a popular fish for farming and fishing. However, its impact on native fish species can be problematic.

Not only does the brown trout compete — and usually win — against native trout species such as brook trout and golden trout, but it also out-competes other fish species. Where it doesn't out-compete other trout species, there's evidence that it breeds with them. This has conservationists worried about the genetic make-up of native species. Conservation measures, including restricting the introduction or stocking of brown trout, are important steps in battling this invasive species, and in some cases, it's working."

 

 

Quote

 

RAINBOW TROUT

"The trauma from trout doesn't end with the brown trout. The rainbow trout is also a problem in areas where it has been introduced. Rainbow trout is native to the western United States but like its brown counterpart, is can now be found all over the world. It's similar to brown trout in that it's an adaptable predator that can out-compete many other species, driving some to the edges of extinction, including the Californian golden trout and humpback chub. They can easily populate streams and cause a shift in invertebrate populations, a shift that has an impact on every other species that feeds on invertebrates. Like brown trout, rainbow trout can hybridize with other trout species, causing rare trout species to become even more so.

Another significant issue with rainbow trout on a global scale is that they are a significant carrier of a parasite that causes whirling disease in both farmed salmon and trout populations as well as wild populations. Once a problem only among rainbow trout, it has spread to other fish species.

The rainbow trout problem isn't likely to slow down anytime soon. They are a favorite of anglers and the U.S. stocks streams with them every year."

 

 

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/10-most-invasive-fish-species-world

[BilletHead]

1 minute ago, MoCarp said:

Not my call. I don't classify any trout as "invasive" but naturalized just like common carp...all 3 and LMB as well are list listed in the top 10 most invasive species in the world...call them up and complain

 

 

 

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/10-most-invasive-fish-species-world

        So let me ask you a question,

  Who makes that call on what is " naturalized" ? How many years? Your common carp you call naturalized because they have been here for over 140 years?   So when does the other invasive new species of carp and large mouth bass that have been introduced out of their native range become naturalized? in 140 years or less ? Who makes that call?   I guess if we wait long enough anything can be OK to our ecosystem? 

  BilletHead

[SpoonDog]

Look at a distribution map of rainbow trout in Missouri.

Look at a distribution map of brown trout in Missouri.

Look at a distribution map of common carp in Missouri.

 

 

One of these things is not like the other.  I'll let you tell me which one it is.

[MoCarp]

1 hour ago, BilletHead said:

        So let me ask you a question,

  Who makes that call on what is " naturalized" ? How many years? Your common carp you call naturalized because they have been here for over 140 years?   So when does the other invasive new species of carp and large mouth bass that have been introduced out of their native range become naturalized? in 140 years or less ? Who makes that call?   I guess if we wait long enough anything can be OK to our ecosystem? 

  BilletHead

verb (used with object), naturalized, naturalizing.

"to introduce (organisms) into a region and cause them to flourish as if native."

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/naturalization

50 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

Look at a distribution map of rainbow trout in Missouri.

Look at a distribution map of brown trout in Missouri.

Look at a distribution map of common carp in Missouri.

One of these things is not like the other.  I'll let you tell me which one it is.

Quote

 

US Dept Of State

The rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss), provides an example of subtle, yet damaging, changes invasive species can effect on native species. The rainbow trout is native to the Pacific states of the United States. It is disease resistant, produces thousands of eggs at a relatively young age, and adapts well to a hatchery environment, which has made it one of the most popular hatchery fish in the United States, as well as abroad. It has been introduced to countries such as Bolivia, Colombia, Peru, and Belgium to increase fishery capacity and opportunities for sport fishing. After being raised in hatcheries, the trout are often released into streams and rivers to provide prey for sport anglers. This release, however, also provides an opportunity for rainbow trout to impact native fish species and riverine ecosystems. While rainbow trout are often overfished or do not spawn in the wild and must be re-stocked biannually in some places, they still pose a major threat to native fauna.

The rainbow trout can hybridize with other trout species, thereby affecting their genetic integrity. Hybridization with rainbow trout has been a major cause of the decline of native cutthroat trout in Rocky Mountain rivers. Rainbow trout introduced in Lake Tahoe in the 1940s are responsible for the near extinction of Lahontan trout in the area. In addition, the stocking of rivers with hatchery trout has led to an introduction of whirling disease in the open waters of 20 states.

Rainbow trout often consume native fishes and compete with salmonids. Introduced trout eat the endangered humpback chub and the Chiricahua leopard frog. In occupying undercut banks, the trout displace spinedace from preferred habitats, pushing them into open water, which makes them more vulnerable to predation. Rainbow trout also compete with suckers, squawfish, and brook trout, often driving them from preferred feeding territories. 

-- Fuller, P.L., L.G. Nico, J.D. Williams, Nonindigenous Fishes Introduced into Inland Waters of the United States (Bethesda, MD: American Fisheries Society, 1999). p. 250-251

Related Link:
-- http://www.fishingpal.com/3rainbowtrout.htm

 

That is from the US dept of state....Browns are a bit more widespread and consider more "damaging" than rainbows it seems...browns have been in the US about the same length of time as common carp 150 years give or take, by ANY qualifier they all are "naturalized"...if you don't like it write a letter to TU and see if it can be removed from the INVASIVE list....