Need some help (again)

[tjm]

17 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Swing a leech in their face.

 

16 hours ago, Devan S. said:

Jigs, streamers, leeches, mega worms, big wooly, ect.

Some times the biggest fish will only want tiny flies and sometimes they will rise to ants or such, but  moving takes energy and nature has taught big fish to seek food that has enough energy to pay for that used to catch it. The saying that big fish like big bait is true some of the time and should always be given shot.  A fish just  laying there is using almost no energy, perhaps saving it to chase a substantial meal, maybe. I don't always make the presentation directly in the fishes face either, I guess that if a fish is enticed enough to peel out and cross the current to grab a bite it will maybe be committed enough not to refuse when close.

You asked about nymphs, mine are hare's ear, hare's ear, muskrat, hare's ear, and pheasant tail.  I usually tie them shank weighted with lead and no bead and fish them singly.  I'm suspicious that bead heads work best with a bobber of some sort and don't drift naturally if not suspended. The disclaimer is I am not an expert and the little I know was learned by trial/error ~50 years ago so may not be up to date. I don't even know how to use and indicator really.  My trout fishing is mostly confined to RRSP nowadays, as the closest place.  Much more fun with bass.

[tangledup]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:23 AM, tjm said:

 

Some times the biggest fish will only want tiny flies and sometimes they will rise to ants or such, but  moving takes energy and nature has taught big fish to seek food that has enough energy to pay for that used to catch it. The saying that big fish like big bait is true some of the time and should always be given shot.  A fish just  laying there is using almost no energy, perhaps saving it to chase a substantial meal, maybe. I don't always make the presentation directly in the fishes face either, I guess that if a fish is enticed enough to peel out and cross the current to grab a bite it will maybe be committed enough not to refuse when close.

You asked about nymphs, mine are hare's ear, hare's ear, muskrat, hare's ear, and pheasant tail.  I usually tie them shank weighted with lead and no bead and fish them singly.  I'm suspicious that bead heads work best with a bobber of some sort and don't drift naturally if not suspended. The disclaimer is I am not an expert and the little I know was learned by trial/error ~50 years ago so may not be up to date. I don't even know how to use and indicator really.  My trout fishing is mostly confined to RRSP nowadays, as the closest place.  Much more fun with bass.

Guys who have been around the game for a long time like you are exactly who I enjoy hearing from. 

I heard something the other day ( I think it was on the Orvis fly fishing podcast maybe) that trout, or fish in general, will hit a crawdad pattern harder because of the claws and its potential to fight back. I have no idea if that's true or not but there were tons of 1-3" crawdads in this stream the other night. Almost more crawdads than baitfish it seemed. I've seen some pretty cool looking crawdad imitations. I might have to try tying some up. 

On a sidenote, I fished Roaring River below the park last week and did not do well at all. I started with nymphs and was only catching creek chubs so I did switch to an olive woolly bugger that day with no success. But the water was super low and clear and I didn't make it down there to fish until about 10:00.

[tjm]

1 hour ago, tangledup said:

the water was super low and clear

Actually the river is and has been flowing about twice as much as normal for this time of year, in the park last Tuesday the level was about where I like it ~80CFS rather than the normal 30-40CFS. It is terrestrial time there, with ants being popular, but I took the most trout on a dark olive marabou jig. I rarely fish RR before 10-11AM and usually quit before 5, those hours on a week day (any year but this) can mean very few other people on the water.

I haven't fished below the park in many years but as I recall the parts I fished only held about one or two trout per 150-200 yards but the chubs were ferocious. Usually took a sculpin or two also. I'm not sure that area is ever actually stocked except with escapees. Was told once that the Z3 was stocked monthly and bait fishers would have  them out in a day or two. Also have been told that there were either no trout or good numbers of big trout all the way to the lake and never put a lot of faith in either story. Stocking is typically done where it is easy to drive a tank truck.  And in past years the river below the park has been quite warm to my hand, warm enough to make trout survival questionable.

Link to RR gauge so you can check water flow before making that trip- https://waterdata.usgs.gov/mo/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=07050152&period=&begin_date=2020-07-01&end_date=2020-07-20

I have never found a crawdad pattern that was effective for me really, and most a hard to tie,  but marabou jigs, cone head woolly buggers, lead eyed bunny strips all seem to work as crawdad imitations if fished in the right area and with crawdad like movement for smallmouth, which really make up the majority of my fly fishing.

[Devan S.]

1 hour ago, tjm said:

Actually the river is and has been flowing about twice as much as normal for this time of year, in the park last Tuesday the level was about where I like it ~80CFS rather than the normal 30-40CFS. It is terrestrial time there, with ants being popular, but I took the most trout on a dark olive marabou jig. I rarely fish RR before 10-11AM and usually quit before 5, those hours on a week day (any year but this) can mean very few other people on the water.

I haven't fished below the park in many years but as I recall the parts I fished only held about one or two trout per 150-200 yards but the chubs were ferocious. Usually took a sculpin or two also. I'm not sure that area is ever actually stocked except with escapees. Was told once that the Z3 was stocked monthly and bait fishers would have  them out in a day or two. Also have been told that there were either no trout or good numbers of big trout all the way to the lake and never put a lot of faith in either story. Stocking is typically done where it is easy to drive a tank truck.  And in past years the river below the park has been quite warm to my hand, warm enough to make trout survival questionable.

Link to RR gauge so you can check water flow before making that trip- https://waterdata.usgs.gov/mo/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=07050152&period=&begin_date=2020-07-01&end_date=2020-07-20

I have never found a crawdad pattern that was effective for me really, and most a hard to tie,  but marabou jigs, cone head woolly buggers, lead eyed bunny strips all seem to work as crawdad imitations if fished in the right area and with crawdad like movement for smallmouth, which really make up the majority of my fly fishing.

Out of the park(below Z3) is stocked albeit seemingly at a random timings. I think usually in late October or November there is a healthy stocking but that may have been slowed/stopped due to the hatchery being in construction. You are correct in that it will generally be stocked in roughly 3 places where road access is easy=bridge. I had heard in old times staff distributed trout throughout the lower section via floating basket but have never witnessed such activity. Likewise when those stockings happen locals have them cleaned up pretty quick like. 

I actually prefer fishing below the park. You are correct there are fairly large 200, 300, 400 yard sections of wasted water but the actual holding spots this time of year are really small and easy to find. I figure a hole may have 2 or 3 fish in each spot although larger ones have more. 

My biggest fish almost always come outside of the park(primarily due to how much I fish there vs. the park) . I have caught several browns over 18" outside the park and numerous good chunky bows outside all the way down to the lake. In fact, the largest rainbow I've ever caught was caught on RR outside the park. 

[tjm]

I don't get around as well as I used to 20-60 years ago and coming back from down that stretch is a lot harder than it was getting down there so I'll likely just stick in Z2.

[tjm]

1 hour ago, Devan S. said:

I had heard in old times staff distributed trout throughout the lower section via floating basket but have never witnessed such activity.

I just had a thought, in olden times (not sure how long ago) Z2 was Bass Lake and the water below the "Old Broken Dam" must have been quite warm this time of year, it would surprise me if they really did that basket stocking, sounds like a fish story.

[Devan S.]

25 minutes ago, tjm said:

I just had a thought, in olden times (not sure how long ago) Z2 was Bass Lake and the water below the "Old Broken Dam" must have been quite warm this time of year, it would surprise me if they really did that basket stocking, sounds like a fish story.

Lake was removed around 67/68....To me old times are 80/90's....Again I've never witnessed it. 

I have seen the stocking truck at the bridges themselves so that does happen but I generally find more fish about the mid-point between access. Probably due to the lower prevalence of the catch and keepers.

[tangledup]

I said it was low and clear, but I hadn't been to the river outside the park until this year, so really my only frame of reference was what it looked like during the first part of the year. Obviously it was pretty high and swift with all the rain we had. As most people do I'm sure, my son and I started fishing at Roaring River when we began trout fishing. We still enjoy fishing the park when it isn't crowded but we discovered a small hidden gem of a creek about 20 minutes from the house so that is primarily where we fish now. I fished below the park at RR a couple times this year because I figured it would be less crowded and I love wade fishing during the summer months. I haven't taken a temperature reading of the stream (don't carry a thermometer) so I can't say about survivability. When I was down there last week the chubs were ferocious as you mentioned. I finally quit nymphing because I got tired of catching the silly things. Although, I was working on nymphing without an indicator so it was still kind of fun to practice detecting those strikes. I saw a few trout but not many. There were a couple small swift runs that held three or four and I found a couple deep pools that had trout in them as well. I just didn't have any luck catching them. But that's all the more reason to go back and try again. 

[Johnsfolly]

10 minutes ago, tangledup said:

last week the chubs were ferocious as you mentioned. I finally quit nymphing because I got tired of catching the silly things.

Blasphemous statements ! Chubs lives matter and they want to enjoy catch and release as well.

I have caught trout below the park. These guys were all caught a few years ago between the park and the lake . BTW I was not flyfishing at the time.

 

[tangledup]

Nice looking fish!