Ollie fest ?

[tjm]

I think that stricter regs or more regs is generally the wrong approach to wildlife management, especially when we don't have funds nor manpower to enforce existing regs. Full enforcement of currently existing regs would likely need to have about ten times as many Agents, enough that each agent had only 50 miles or so of stream to patrol, a small enough sector that each agent could walk all of the assigned area regularly rather than make random parking lot checks. Since the 1950s I have never seen more than accidental enforcement of any fish and game regulations. Even if the agents try hard, they can only be in one place at any given time and can usually  be seen coming before they get  there. 

I asked the spawning  question because some years ago a biologist had told me that he thought some stream reproduction possible there but had no real evidence of it being successful. I've caught dozens/hundreds of fingerling RBT out of Hickory Creek,  some years more than other years,   and presumed they were National Hatchery escapees, so when talking to a bio, I asked about in steam reproduction and he didn't rule out reproduction in either of those streams. There was a stream back east that I caught fingerling brown trout in for about 6 years before the fisheries people "made  the discovery"  of  natural brown trout reproduction there; I had reported such catches a few times and my info was pretty much dismissed,  until one of their "inventories" turned up lots of young browns. I have the notion that any stream capable of holding trout year round has the potential of natural reproduction, but also thing that our huge rainstorms with the accompanying floods make all but the shortest drainages marginal in that respect. Capps gathers a lot of runoff  in a two or three inch rain and the change in temperature and water quality would be traumatic to baby trout, I would think. 

[trythisonemv]

18 hours ago, tjm said:

I think that stricter regs or more regs is generally the wrong approach to wildlife management, especially when we don't have funds nor manpower to enforce existing regs. Full enforcement of currently existing regs would likely need to have about ten times as many Agents, enough that each agent had only 50 miles or so of stream to patrol, a small enough sector that each agent could walk all of the assigned area regularly rather than make random parking lot checks. Since the 1950s I have never seen more than accidental enforcement of any fish and game regulations. Even if the agents try hard, they can only be in one place at any given time and can usually  be seen coming before they get  there. 

I asked the spawning  question because some years ago a biologist had told me that he thought some stream reproduction possible there but had no real evidence of it being successful. I've caught dozens/hundreds of fingerling RBT out of Hickory Creek,  some years more than other years,   and presumed they were National Hatchery escapees, so when talking to a bio, I asked about in steam reproduction and he didn't rule out reproduction in either of those streams. There was a stream back east that I caught fingerling brown trout in for about 6 years before the fisheries people "made  the discovery"  of  natural brown trout reproduction there; I had reported such catches a few times and my info was pretty much dismissed,  until one of their "inventories" turned up lots of young browns. I have the notion that any stream capable of holding trout year round has the potential of natural reproduction, but also thing that our huge rainstorms with the accompanying floods make all but the shortest drainages marginal in that respect. Capps gathers a lot of runoff  in a two or three inch rain and the change in temperature and water quality would be traumatic to baby trout, I would think. 

What measures would you take to handle the issue then? I believe you're correct about the lack of enforcement but that doesn't mean the rules is moot. Perhaps , we should have cross law enforcement bureau collaboration as a solution? Sheriff deputies that have ranges that intersect with conservation areas could do more random parking lot checks. Real conversation needs had. Especially in light of increasing costs for food more people are turning to the water ways for sustainability which will increase the problems.  

[tjm]

Sheriffs, other Police etc. would not have the training to recognize/differentiate  fish species and training them would be just as costly as training new Agents. I doubt that without special training that their  testimony would stand up in court. I think that is why they trained wildlife cops separately in all states and at the Federal level.  

I don't think there is an obvious solution other than education or the wildlife authorities in the 50 states (and other countries) would have come upon them. The most effective solution to poaching of game might be to prohibit all hunting and fishing with a cash reward for turning in violators and I don't think that we want that.  I think that conservation  education in the schools could help. But I also think that   as time passes the old poachers die off and the younger generations have more interest in other things. Who be fishing in 50 years? Will past and present conservation efforts matter then?  For now we can keep on as we go? 

[ollie]

Poaching was a big thing to my uncle and cousins. As in they were always poaching and taking what they wanted. Still makes me mad to think about how much they abused the land. As in they would even shoot a deer in someone's yard at night while the people were in the house sleeping. My cousins just grew up thinking it was normal since their dad and grandpa did it. On another note, I bagged 4 trout, 2 sucker fish and a google eye down on Capps yesterday. All in about an hour and a half. Biggest was the second one at 19" to the tape. The other 3 were just newer stockers. I have pics, but I don't think I will share on here since the stream already has it's issues.

[trythisonemv]

17 hours ago, tjm said:

Sheriffs, other Police etc. would not have the training to recognize/differentiate  fish species and training them would be just as costly as training new Agents. I doubt that without special training that their  testimony would stand up in court. I think that is why they trained wildlife cops separately in all states and at the Federal level.  

I don't think there is an obvious solution other than education or the wildlife authorities in the 50 states (and other countries) would have come upon them. The most effective solution to poaching of game might be to prohibit all hunting and fishing with a cash reward for turning in violators and I don't think that we want that.  I think that conservation  education in the schools could help. But I also think that   as time passes the old poachers die off and the younger generations have more interest in other things. Who be fishing in 50 years? Will past and present conservation efforts matter then?  For now we can keep on as we go? 

I would say a regular law enforcement agent could a least handle checking for a license.  And there are more bass fisherman now than ever so maybe we should start promoting trout as a tournament fish to gain notoriety and maybe people will listen 😂 

[tjm]

19 minutes ago, trythisonemv said:

I would say a regular law enforcement agent could a least handle checking for a license.  And there are more bass fisherman now than ever so maybe we should start promoting trout as a tournament fish to gain notoriety and maybe people will listen 😂 

I think they can but don't want the extra work.