Strange Email

[getfished]

Well, I've read all 5 pages of this and it has transpired over a few days, kinda like a saga. Ha ha! Since I'm up here in the great state of Kansas I don't post too often. I did ask Eric one morning at State park boat ramp a few questions about current techniques and patterns.He very politely commented in a useful way and off I went. That was the only time I've ever been around Eric.I felt awkward asking so I tried to phrase my requests in a general way. Yes I did want some useful info for free but not trade secrets and I do believe there is a difference.

I think the guide has a real challenge in reading people. Some people will appreciate the fee paid for a wonderful day on the water. They don't have to burden themselves with the expense and headache of maintaining a boat. Nor do they have to learn the lake to maximize their chances of catching fish. All they have to do is use the phone to schedule the trip and show up.

Sometimes other people have different expectations and they are a bit more of a challenge to deal with. They want everything possible under the sun because they are paying a fee for guide service. Primarily these people want to catch fish and LOTS of them! Herein, I think is a dangerous area to tread. Many times the guide falls victim to the pursuit of catching lots of fish. Fear of not being able to do this might make them somewhat petty or overprotective of this body of water which is public domain whether we individually use it to make money and livelihood or just for pleasure.

I know this suggestion might be considered silly by some or already in practice by others but here goes.....

There are always going to be greedy people but maybe the emphasis of the guide business could shift somewhat to a more educational format of the lake, the area around the lake, the fish and wildlife in the area. Throw in some fishing with an experienced "guide" and raise your "chance" of catching some nice fish as an added perk instead of the primary one of catching as many as possible.

GETFISHED !!!

Steve Mackey

[ozark trout fisher]

Here is my opinion... for what it's worth...

1) I'm with RPS... following a guide boat around is like STEALING... plain and simple. If you want to know how and where a guide catches them, then why don't you just be a man and hire them. I own a business, and I wouldn't want someone following me around-- stealing my sales leads, and swooping in and STEALING my potential customers... it is essentially the same thing following a guide around.

2) Anybody with any PRIDE at all would understand this... I would rather find and catch 5 fish on my own merits than catch 50 fish that somebody else found for me and told me just what to catch them on. Don't get me wrong... it is great and noble to hire a guide of you are inexperienced and/or unfamiliar with the lake or current patterns-- but someone following someone around to try to STEAL their honey-holes is rediculous and selfish. It is okay to use a few tips and words of wisdom given to you by someone to give you a better chance to catch them, but... FIND YOUR OWN FISH!!!!!

The bottom line is that I am in full support of a guide's privacy while he is doing business. My message to these followers is... leave the guides alone and try to succeed on your own merit, for once in your life.

Whack'em

Here is my opinion. If you spend the money to hire a guide, there is nothing wrong with using the general patterns that you used in your own fishing. The main reason why I hire guides actually to learn how to catch fish later in the trip. I may go back to a few of the spots that the guide took, but I won't fish it hard, and I will release all the fish I catch from these places. If the guide comes back with another client, I will leave immediately. For the most part, however, I will use the general pattern of the guided that I hire, and fish in different, but similar areas.

Following a guide that you didn't pay is just wrong. Plain and simple stealing. Technically, it may be legal, but it is really crossing an ethical line that shouldn't be crossed.'

By the way, I've been gone awhile, and I haven't had a chance to read all the posts in this topic. If I am repeating what someone else said, I apologize.

[Tfsh4bass]

Things that are just going to happen...

If you guide someone they will hit the spots you showed them every single time they visit the lake

If you guide someone their friends will hit the spots you showed them every single time they visit the lake

Your non-boater in a pro am will hit your spots every single time they visits the lake

Your non-boater's friends will hit your spots every single time they visit the lake

Do good in a tournament and so and so will say they saw you fishing in spot A and B

Spot A and B will get hit repeatedly by so and so plus his buddies and buddies buddies

Any FLW or BASS pro doing well in a tournament will have 30 locals following them around to mark their spots

Those 30 locals have 100 friends who will use the marked spots

In the end you have to have a lot of spots...

[fishinwrench]

I may go back to a few of the spots that the guide took, but I won't fish it hard,

Not to drill you....but Define: "fishing it hard"

I'll say it again. No matter where you find fish....and end up strokin'em....chances are a guide once did well there, and probably considers it "one of HIS holes".

So no matter where you catch fish SOMEBODY is gonna call you a basturd.

[CaptainJoe]

Eric,

Did you come up with a name, yet.

Here are a few that I have seen during my 35 years in the working world. And, there were plenty of them.

Main Entry: freeloader

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: someone who takes advantage

Synonyms: barnacle, leech, moocher, parasite, sponge

Main Entry: hanger-on

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: person who attends the powerful for status or benefit

Synonyms: dependent, flunky, follower, freeloader, lackey, leech, nuisance, parasite, sponger, sycophant, truckler

Main Entry: leech

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: parasite

Synonyms: barnacle, bloodsucker, bum*, freeloader, scrounger, sponge, sycophant

Notes: leach means to remove the soluble constituents from by subjecting to the action of percolating water or other liquid; a leech is a carnivorous or bloodsucking aquatic worms typically having a sucker at each end - or a follower who hangs around a host in hope of gain

I really like the "follower who hangs around a host in hope of gain." We are not guides, we are hosts.

I want plenty of salt on my popcorn....

[focused fishing]

Good suggestions Joe...

I still think there is something missing though.....

A system where people let others pay for a product or service they want, then reap the benefit of the work and payment of others ....... I know there is a name for it....argggg......it's right on the tip of my tongue.......argggg.........where's my duct tape...... my head is going to explode......

[ness]

I've seen it said a couple times in this thread that following a guide is stealing, and I think that's a bit of a stretch. When you hire a guide you're not buying a boat ride to some nice water. You're hiring someone to show you how to catch some fish. Sure, part of that is getting to the right spot, but there's more, right? (If there isn't, you're with the wrong guide). So following a guide will only get you a fraction of what the client gets. Sure, it's a crappy thing to do, maybe even $%^tty, but it's not stealing.

I suspect this has been going on for a long time, and the smarter guides have figured out ways to deal with it, still get the clients and make some money. I also suspect the smarter ones do what they can to stay ahead of the crowd -- like learning to read the situation and change your location and/or tactic accordingly. Sure, some bozo in the next boat can see where you go, and maybe even what you're doing, but I suggest you let them have it. Give them a wave, maybe even flip them a little $%^&, but don't let it ruin your day.

Seems like there's some pretty strong feelings out on Table Rock, and honestly, as an outsider, I wonder why I'd go there when I read some of this. It might be worth thinking about the impression you give when you post on here. This stuff lasts forever, or until Phil deletes it.

As to Paul Dallas and his remarks, I think you guys have been a little hard on the old feller. He's a legend and pioneer in the world of internet fishing forum tomfoolery, and the way he's been treated here isn't befitting a man of his stature. He can take care of himself, when he has his wits about him, and doesn't need me to step in here to defend his name or educate this forum as to his credentials. Nonetheless, I'd encourage you to listen to what he has to say, because there's a heap of wisdom and some good entertainment buried in those seemingly irrational posts.

[Tfsh4bass]

I need to add I think following around ANYONE...not just guides...is BS just like I think it is BS when people cut you off when you are moving up a bank, pull in on you when you are stroking crappie or whites or cut in line at the movie theater after you have spent time inside the movie tape maze. In the end though it is going to happen whether you like it or not. Go fish Lake Fork during the spawn if you really want to get pissed off or fish the Big Bass Spash on Rayburn with 9000 other fisherman thinking the entire lake is their spot.

[stone9-7=2]

Welfare is the word your looking for I believe.

Some good points have been made by all. I mean we got women in thongs,hookers & pimps, stalkers,thieves,drugs,alcohol,Nixon,Kathy lee & popcorn.

Dang people what more could you want???

Oh wait I know, free fishing info. Well you get that also.

All this & more on a stuffy forum. lmao.

[Forsythian]

Wow CWF... I stopped in at the Reel Doctor's today for a clown-colored husky jerk and some swimmin' minners when I heard that THE Paul Dallas was back in the area, trolling for big game... and here you are!

Now, I know you've gotten bit, but riling up this bunch is about as hard as chucking velveeta at Rockbridge. Might seem satisfying at first, but you're gonna get bored soon enough.

Eric, I think the word you are looking for is humor... or maybe perspective. Here's hoping you find what you're looking for. If not, there's always Prilosec.