Camp Zoe Seized By The Feds

[jdmidwest]

If they can seize property on the basis of another's drug use, then I guess I am liable now. We found a mobile meth lab on our property a few years back. They come in thru private property, went up a stream bed out of sight on a 4wd jeep, built a fire and made a batch, then left the mess. Did not even know it till I was fishing up stream a week or so later and found it. We also had someone burn a vehicle on the same property one night, did not even find it till next rabbit season. Local law enforcement did not even bother to make a report.

Of course, we would be covered by a trespass law, the land is posted and they were not invited. Owner's of the event could be held liable. If you hold a party and let an underage person drink your booze, then you are liable. If you give a legal person booze and they have too much, take off driving, and kill someone in a wreck, you could be liable. This did apply to bars unless it has been changed.

I would assume there are other things involved in this than what is making the news. I read a little about it on River Hills Traveler. I would assume a crowd like this would draw may have had some ill effects on the local population. While most were probably upstanding persons, I would assume local law enforcement probably saw a spike in crime during the events. There is another event that draws this same problem over in Ill. at a Saltpeter Cave.

[KCRIVERRAT]

Jeez... long live Camp Zoe. Beautiful darn place.

If the feds keep control, how do ya figure they'll screw it up?

Or, who will gain control of the property if the feds don't want it? And what happens next?

That's some nice property on Sinking Creek and close to the mouth of that and the Current.

[stlfisher]

The feds watched them for 4 years in conjunction with 2 other law enforcement agencies. It is not like they swooped in because someone lit up a joint around the campfire one night. It was blatent and repeated enabling and they were warned to crack down on the drug use...and the owners did not. I am not sure the fed had another choice. If something would happen to a kid at that camp everyone would be screaming for the owners heads and lack of law enforcement.

[flytyer57]

I hear the crack of a whip and the thud of jackboots in redneck MO.

[troutfiend1985]

I see that this subject is very touchy for a lot of people. I want to extend my sorrow to the family of the owners of that property. I would also like us to take a minute and see what happens next. We have to remember this guy is still innocent, although the court of public opinion has seemed to chimed a split verdict. Right now he is not convicted of anything, has not been charged with anything and has not lost his land. I know that this is some of the frustration about this situation, the idea that we don't know what is going on over there and right now it seems that the government is outside its limits. But we also have to remember that we don't have all the information, and most likely no one outside the federal authorities has this information. I have read about cases that have been thrown out for constitutional violations, and this guy has an attorney so lets give the process a chance.

I would also like to take a minute to say the idea about discussing the qualities of legalizing narcotics on a public fishing forum is probably not the best place to do so. I know that this is a outlet for all of us, but we aren't going to convince each other on this topic. While drugs laws draw scrutiny from people, we have to remember that kids do watch these forums, and that there are other places to discuss these issues. I don't care to express my opinion on the "war on drugs" and I don't think the "war on drugs" is an appropriate topic for this forum. I'm not trying to get all Ness on you guys , I'm just trying to say that we're not going to convince each other on this topic, it truly is a fruitless tree. So my advice is that we calm down, drink a beer and see what the next few weeks brings.

[techo]

The feds watched them for 4 years in conjunction with 2 other law enforcement agencies. It is not like they swooped in because someone lit up a joint around the campfire one night. It was blatent and repeated enabling and they were warned to crack down on the drug use...and the owners did not. I am not sure the fed had another choice. If something would happen to a kid at that camp everyone would be screaming for the owners heads and lack of law enforcement.

I have tried to stay out of this.....but you also seem to have some knowledge. It was more than two agencies, more than marijuana and the owner had plenty of warning and visits. You want to visit about drug wars? Look to the south. Most of our drugs come from Mexico. Does anyone want that type of war here?

[fishinwrench]

I don't know what your link leads to because the internet filter here apparently doesn't like it.

Imagine that Someone limiting your access to knowledge ?

[stlfisher]

I have tried to stay out of this.....but you also seem to have some knowledge. It was more than two agencies, more than marijuana and the owner had plenty of warning and visits. You want to visit about drug wars? Look to the south. Most of our drugs come from Mexico. Does anyone want that type of war here?

I am not sure I understand entirely what you mean....if you are agreeing or disagreeing. All I am really saying is that this situation seems more than just a couple hippies having a good time and the owners are paying a hefty price. I don't think this situation is the same as a few teenagers smoking a joint while on a float. In my mind there is a difference.

I would agree the situation in Mexico is bad, but probably shouldn't say anymore since I might crossover the political line.

[Outside Bend]

The landowner claims he didn't know what was going on. IMO, unless the government can prove otherwise, there's no reason for them to be seizing his assets.

I'm an absentee landowner, with property 70 miles from where I live. I get down there as often as I can, but I can't be patrolling it 24/7. I've found plenty of evidence of illicit activity- abandoned and stripped cars, illegal dumping, pot paraphernalia, etc- activities which I'm by no means complicit in. I'm sure similar things happen throughout the Ozarks- you simply can't be everywhere at once, and to think that your property can be seized for activities you neither condoned nor took part in, to me sets an awfully frightening precedent.

That the government is basically the landowner's hands behind his back- he seems to have very little recourse, especially with frozen assets- is downright appalling.

[eric1978]

I'm not trying to get all Ness on you guys

I don't think this situation is the same as a few teenagers smoking a joint while on a float. In my mind there is a difference.

And what's that difference, exactly?

I find it comical how libertarian everyone pretends to be....until it comes to what someone else is doing, then government intervention is all fine and dandy. Pick a position and stick with it, peeps.