Camp Zoe Seized By The Feds

[jdmidwest]

Oh now, hvae you never misplaced a couple of letter???

What the heck is Google foo????

It relates to my mastery of the Google Search Engine. Except I rearranged the letters too, should be Google Fu.

[ozark trout fisher]

IMO... you ARE naive you... ah, never mind. A huge venue in the city creates, as you know almighty Ness, dollars towards the city coffers. "Management/Security" sees the same as "Undercover Agents" do from a private landowner along an Ozark stream, whether it's a crowd of 18,000 or a crowd of 2,000. Big arena concerts as you know Ness (you really come off as the concert goer') have city cops everywhere as well. They mostly turn their heads. Whereas the small guy on his piece of property gets harrassed because he's an easy target. So... did some local citizens complain? Probably. Did the local law enforcement see an easy mark? darn straight.Government hasn't run amok? Are you kidding me? I'm thinking you'd prosecute the fans who stormed the field after the Mizzou/Oklahoma game. You're probably a darn Jayhawk anyway.

Go away Ness (I know you won't) Get back in Al's canoe,suck up some more, sit on his lap in the back seat, let him teach you how to cast and tell fairytales, and don't forget to always post... "Good point Al".

If you can't do that... post a fishin' report you no fishi... ah... never mind.

I'm conflicted about what I think of the Camp Zoe seizure, but I do know that this post is incredibly mean-spirited. What the heck is wrong with you?

If you don't like someone's opinion, come up with a logical, fact based argument if you have one.

[Trout Commander]

I like the song, but self incriminate much?

[ollie]

I have stayed out of this one for awhile now because it is so up in the air on what happened. All I can say is that back in history when this country was first starting out this would not have been tolerated! Someone would have been shot over the whole ordeal and some might have gone to extreme measures to defend THEIR freedom. I have no idea whether the guy is innocent or guilty of anything, but I do know it is dead wrong to seize a man's bank account without filing any charges against him. I realize he still has the property, but when did it become alright to drain a guy's account without first being charge of anything? This country was founded on certain principals and seems that we are losing them everyday. I just wish the government would stay out of a lot of things. Now it seems it is controling our lives. There are a lot of laws out there that are unconsitutional and I just get sick of seeing it happen in my lifetime.

[Justin Spencer]

I just wish the government would stay out of a lot of things. Now it seems it is controling our lives. There are a lot of laws out there that are unconsitutional and I just get sick of seeing it happen in my lifetime.

I guess this is why so many hippie communes have come and gone over the years. For the most part these people stay to themselves and cause harm to no one, but they too have a history of being seized by the feds. One in Douglas County was raided back in the 70's or 80's can't remember the timeline exactly, but they were busted because they were growing some pot. Sounds like they had a good thing going living good peaceful lives in sinc with nature, but the government had to stick their noses in where I personally don't think it belongs. I'm not personally a pot smoker but guarantee I would rather have a bunch of stoners in the campground and on the river than a bunch of whiskey drunks.

[ness]

IMO... you ARE naive you... ah, never mind. A huge venue in the city creates, as you know almighty Ness, dollars towards the city coffers. "Management/Security" sees the same as "Undercover Agents" do from a private landowner along an Ozark stream, whether it's a crowd of 18,000 or a crowd of 2,000. Big arena concerts as you know Ness (you really come off as the concert goer') have city cops everywhere as well. They mostly turn their heads. Whereas the small guy on his piece of property gets harrassed because he's an easy target. So... did some local citizens complain? Probably. Did the local law enforcement see an easy mark? darn straight.Government hasn't run amok? Are you kidding me? I'm thinking you'd prosecute the fans who stormed the field after the Mizzou/Oklahoma game. You're probably a darn Jayhawk anyway.

Go away Ness (I know you won't) Get back in Al's canoe,suck up some more, sit on his lap in the back seat, let him teach you how to cast and tell fairytales, and don't forget to always post... "Good point Al".

If you can't do that... post a fishin' report you no fishi... ah... never mind.

Wow, Rat. How'd we get here?

I've looked around on the net some the last couple days, and the whole forfeiture thing is summed up pretty well on a cornell.edu page. Didn't keep the link, but it wasn't hard to find. Here's a couple interesting points:

1) There's criminal and civil forfeiture. Criminal means taking ill-gotten gains. Civil, means taking property used in the commission of a crime and has a lower hurdle. No conviction necessary. The property owner has the burden of proof, it's the property that effectively on trial. Weird, huh?

2) It's been debated and tested for decades, including at the Supreme Court . So far, it's still out there, but it's been fine-tuned over the years due to the challenges and abuses.

3) There's also a number of stories out on the web about Camp Zoe. Lotsa flower-power stuff, lotsa people talking about how shady the people and the operation were. The only real thing we've got at this point is the complaint.

4) I went fishing with my kids last month. We had fun. Daughter, who rarely wants to go anymore, caught several trout on an 18 Cahill. Happy now, Rat?

Some things to keep in mind, and our lawyers/law students can probably speak to this better: law is ever-changing, and always imperfect. No doubt people sometimes end up getting screwed. Hell, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that at least one innocent fellow has been executed over the last couple hundred years? But...this is the system we've got, and it's probably the best one out there. But still not perfect, and it will be tweaked.

You can dream about legalized pot, banning sweeteners, free love, whatever. But from a practical standpoint, you probably oughta get your azz outta bed on time, drive your fully-licensed car the speed limit to work, do what your boss says, drive your fully-licensed car the speed limit home from work, pay your taxes and generally work within the system. Camp Zoe didn't, and now they've got a mess on their hands.

[flytyer57]

Some things to keep in mind, and our lawyers/law students can probably speak to this better: law is ever-changing, and always imperfect. No doubt people sometimes end up getting screwed. Hell, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that at least one innocent fellow has been executed over the last couple hundred years? But...this is the system we've got, and it's probably the best one out there. But still not perfect, and it will be tweaked.

The founding fathers of this country would be rolling over in their graves if they knew what is happening in this country today. They strived to make this a perfect union. Of course no-one could ever do just that. But for them to know that INNOCENT people are being prosecuted and even put to death?

For a perfect society, err should always be on the side of the defendant. Too many times have INNOCENT people been convicted on trumped up circumstantial evidence. "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt" doesn't mean crap in this country anymore. Make a charge and the sheeple go along with it.

[ozark trout fisher]

But from a practical standpoint, you probably oughta get your azz outta bed on time, drive your fully-licensed car the speed limit to work, do what your boss says, drive your fully-licensed car the speed limit home from work, pay your taxes and generally work within the system.

I'm with you about 90%. Camp Zoe was probably harmful in many ways, and I do think the end result of the place closing down is best. I'm not sure how I feel about the process, but this guy clearly was allowing people to do (and sell) hard drugs on his property. I don't have the least bit of sympathy for him.

But on the other hand the "stay within the system" statement is something I can't go along with. While this may not be true in this specific case, there are many times when the "system" is just plain wrong. And I think it's our duty as citizens not to go with the grain in cases where the "system" is wrong or unjust.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'm not personally a pot smoker but guarantee I would rather have a bunch of stoners in the campground and on the river than a bunch of whiskey drunks.

Really? What do you have against us????

But from a practical standpoint, you probably oughta get your azz outta bed on time, drive your fully-licensed car the speed limit to work, do what your boss says, drive your fully-licensed car the speed limit home from work, pay your taxes and generally work within the system. Camp Zoe didn't, and now they've got a mess on their hands.

Oh so do you have some inside info the rest of don't??

How do you know what time he gets out of bed?

How do you know is car is not fully-licensed?? What the hell is a half licensed car anyway?

How do you know he didn't follow the speed limit?? On a side note, I'll put a $100 to your $1 you are known to speed.

How do you know he doesn't do what his wife/grilfriend tells him to do??

How do you know he doesn't pay taxes?

And if did any of these, I would say he is generally working within the system.

When are you gonna do another one of fly swap's?? Word on the street is that worked out pretty good for you.

[Justin Spencer]

Really? What do you have against us????

I have nothing against anyone all of your money spends equally well, some drunks just like to fight and sometimes wake me up in the middle of the night, then I make Amy go tell them to quiet down.