Gumbo Yes, Bait No.....

[fishinwrench]

Ironically that page comes up blank on my end. LMAO!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Click it on again and towards the top you will see a pop up warning. Click it and choose to download file.

[Outside Bend]

I've been out of town, so I'll respond in bits and pieces.

I'm not insinuating that it couldn't become a problem, just curious (as with the didymo deal) why it hasn't ALREADY become a problem. Are there currently any streams void of its native craws? Because folks have been relocating crawdads for a lot of years.....long enough I would think to have already caused the disaster they are all of a sudden fearful of.

That's all.

Two native crayfish species in the St. Francis watershed are heading towards federally Threatened status due to introductions of a crayfish native to the Black River watershed. National Park Service folks are worried about a different invasive crayfish that recently cropped up on the Eleven Point, and another species that has been introduced to some of the springs on the Current and Jacks Fork. Wetland managers on the state's waterfowl areas are concerned about yet another introduced species, native to the bootheel, that has been cropping up in west and northwest Missouri. It's a concern because we are

seeing non-native crayfish impact our watersheds.

One of the biggest aquaculture species spends only a couple weeks a year above ground- the rest of the time it's in a burrow. As much as our smallmouth resources depend on a stream's crayfish prey base, I'd hate to think how smallie populations would react if their primary food source were available only two months outta the year. This state also has a ton of small impoundments with earthen dams, and some of these species have been known to cause dam failures with their burrowing. Add to that non-economic things like the decline of native critters, some of which don't exist anywhere else on the planet, and IMO it's justification enough.

I agree it seems like a trivial rule. But it does a whole lot of good for our state's streams while negatively impacting relatively few folks- to me that's a win. And like folks have pointed out, it's a non sequitur to whine about MDC's new rules because DNR or EPA isn't pushing on big polluters. Gee, a politically independent body can enact more stringent conservation measures than two agencies which rely directly on legislative funding? Who'd a thunk? If you want water quality issues taken seriously at the state and federal level, elect folks who will make water quality issues a priority. They hold the purse strings.

[fishinwrench]

Point made and accepted. Are native crawdads more sensitive to pollution than the invasives ?

Doesn't it seem really messed up that "native" species of just about every living thing are always such pussies?

I mean Just about anything will just knock them into oblivion, yet native species from ANOTHER location are always the big bad wolf when they come to town.

Maybe the way to strengthen the gene pool on all these candyasses is to just keep moving them around.

Wouldn't you kind of expect a "native" species to be a little more programmed to survive in its intended range? Frustrating! Who can we blame for that dunderheaded design flaw?

I suppose the quickest and easiest way to conquer the world is to move into your neighbors house.

[Outside Bend]

Point made and accepted. Are native crawdads more sensitive to pollution than the invasives ?

Some are, some aren't, some are just as sensitive as the native species- but there's other factors, too. A large-bodied nonnative is going to push smaller native species out of prime hiding and feeding areas, leaving the natives more vulnerable to predators. The nonnatives themselves may prey on the native species. They may introduce disease organisms to which the native species aren't adapted. They may spawn at different times of year which allows their offspring a head start, or their offspring may grow faster than the offspring of the natives...

Doesn't it seem really messed up that "native" species of just about every living thing are always such pussies?

I mean Just about anything will just knock them into oblivion, yet native species from ANOTHER location are always the big bad wolf when they come to town.

Maybe the way to strengthen the gene pool on all these candyasses is to just keep moving them around.

These species survived perfectly well for millennia before we began shuffling them around. And it's unlikely many of these species would've ever encountered one another in nature- had people not intervened. It's blaming the victim- the problem isn't that the native species are poorly suited to their native habitat, the problem is we keep altering their native habitat. Some native species- geese, raccoons, coyotes- easily adapt to our ecosystem disturbances. Other critters haven't adapted nearly so well. Native Americans declined enormously after European contact- not because they were pussies or maladapted to the environment, but because that environment was rapidly changing, and there were a whole host of things going on they hadn't had to deal with before.

Wouldn't you kind of expect a "native" species to be a little more programmed to survive in its intended range? Frustrating! Who can we blame for that dunderheaded design flaw?

I suppose the quickest and easiest way to conquer the world is to move into your neighbors house.

They are programmed to survive in their native range, just not every alteration that possibly comes their way. These organisms evolved without the competition of other species, so there's no genetic adaptation to competing with other species. Just like Missouri stream organisms aren't well adapted to saltwater conditions- you can only adapt to the environment you're in, not every possible environmental permutation out there.

[jdmidwest]

It's blaming the victim- the problem isn't that the native species are poorly suited to their native habitat, the problem is we keep altering their native habitat. Some native species- geese, raccoons, coyotes- easily adapt to our ecosystem disturbances. Other critters haven't adapted nearly so well. Native Americans declined enormously after European contact- not because they were pussies or maladapted to the environment, but because that environment was rapidly changing, and there were a whole host of things going on they hadn't had to deal with before.

I think Native Americans declined because Europeans had more firepower, diseases that they had not encountered, and a loss of resources that the Europeans exploited instead of managing.

[fishinwrench]

No fair whipping out the logic, it was a fine rant I had going too.

[kdan]

Well, what an interesting read. I would not be a bit surprised if the real culprit in the disappearence of the native species of crawdaddies,

and even the beloved smallie, would be the "invasive" otter. They maim and kill for the pure injoyment of killing. I can't think of any thing

the MDC has done to really P*** me off other than the otter. (maybe a bear or two)

Rant??? Why not?

[eric1978]

Well, what an interesting read. I would not be a bit surprised if the real culprit in the disappearence of the native species of crawdaddies,

and even the beloved smallie, would be the "invasive" native otter. They maim and kill for the pure injoyment of killing. I can't think of any thing

the MDC has done to really P*** me off other than the otter. (maybe a bear or two)

Rant??? Why not?

Went ahead and fixed that for ya. Now if they'd stop allowing the mindless shooting of native predators, the otters might return to the ecological balance they once had in the Ozarks. Otters are a drop in the bucket compared to the damage catch and keep anglers, giggers, and riparian habitat destroyers do to the smallmouth populations. Your anger is misdirected.

[Al Agnew]

Well this is going off on all kinds of tangents...years ago I floated Roubidoux Creek. Good habitat, few fish, vast numbers of crawdads just crawling around out in the open. Near the take-out I came upon a family who was fishing and swimming, and they said that there weren't many bass left in the creek because the otters got them all. "Yeah, we used to come off this creek with a sackload of bass every time we fished it, but those danged otters ate all of them." Hmm...maybe all those sackloads you took out had something to do with it. And if the otters ate all the bass on that creek, they sure didn't dent the crawdad population.

In a way, though, I disagree with Eric on this one. While otters are technically not an invasive species because they were once native to the Ozarks, the Ozarks they were re-introduced into is vastly different from the Ozarks they used to live in. Streams with degraded habitat and a myriad of farm ponds full of fish for them to eat, no natural predators left, and prey species that had been many years without having to deal with them, meant that essentially they were coming into a new ecological niche.

There's no doubt they have had a serious effect on some smaller streams, but I also know of plenty of streams large and small where there are plenty of otters and plenty of fish. A lot depends upon wintering habitat for the fish, I think. Hopefully the otters and their prey base will come into balance; in fact, I think that's happening already.

They do eat a lot of crawdads, though.