Title Or No Title, That Is The Question?

[BilletHead]

Ok here goes,

I am not looking for a free pass here. I just sold my canoe. When I bought it in June of 2000 I got some paperwork. Mrs. Billethead gave them the check. I asked about what I needed to do and they said if you are just going to paddle nothing just enjoy. I filed the paperwork and that was that. One of our members here and said his DMV wanted origional title app or title (IL). I said I could do a bill of sale because I did not title or regester because I never used a motor on it. Did not hear any more from him but did list the canoe and kayak on craigs list and pronto both sold. So now more to the story. i met the canoe buyer today and made the deal, both of us happy and I provided him a bill of sale. He is going to use a motor so he goes to the MO DMV and got a no way without a title. Nice guy, said for me not to worry and see what i can do on my end. So I do. Lucky my wife knew right where the origional paper work was so off to the DMV I go. Looking at the paaper work I had not paid the taxes many years ago. My mistake, I should of looked at the bill of sale instead of filing it. Told the lady at the DMV what happened and told of the story I was not going to motorize the canoe. Se said that was fine but HUN you were supposed to title it. Ok nice lady let's just fix it but while we are doing that define what has to be titled please? Well HUN any watercraft.

So another conflab ensued. Define watercraft? Well HUN anything that floats! I am sure WoodMan the boat builder here knows more that these two (got a second one involved) and wish he was here at the conflab. So I say if I do my best Huck Finn, Tom Sayer thing and strap logs together do I have to title it? They both giggle and look at me funny like. AND what about all those personal one man pontoons? Float tubes? Kayaks? I never did get a straight answer. I do know when I bought my first kayak I paid taxes right there and same when I had bought my first and last personal pontoon. It came with a trolling motor mount. Got things done and paid my fine, thank goodness it was a 30$ max penalty. But taxes sucked and total it was 97$ and some change. So my 500$ canoe sales went down by a hundred.

No I say you all my Ozarks Anglers friends do you all have your watercraft titled? Oared and paddled ones? There are some here who have motorized there kayaks? Did you all regester them? What are your state laws? Are we wrong here in MO on our Kayaks and personal pontoons? Float tubes?

I may be the only one missing the boat I might say?

BilletHead

PS the canoe buyer will have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for the canoe title to get to me. He said no problem!

[joeD]

Title app? Bill of sale? DMV? For a canoe? Hopefully you're jesting. If not, then, well, hmm, ...good luck!

"Leads?!

[moguy1973]

What's weird with all of this is what I found right on the Missouri DMV website:

http://dor.mo.gov/motorv/watercraft/#notrequired

Boats/Vessels that are NOT required to be titled or registered in the state of Missouri if they are:

• Owned by out-of-state residents and housed, stored, or operated in the state of Missouri for less than 60 consecutive days;
  
• Owned by the United States Government;
  
• From a country other than the United States using the waters of this state for less than 60 consecutive days;
  
• Propelled solely by paddle or oars (regardless of length);
  
• Sailboats or sailboards 12 feet or less in length; or
  
• A ship's lifeboat used solely for lifesaving purposes.
  

Vessels documented by the United States Coast Guard are not required to be titled, but must be registered.

I'm thinking you just got screwed out of $127...

[BilletHead]

Thank you Jim, this is what I was looking for. I want more input from others also. I think I will go back for a visit to the DMV? I do know I owe taxes to someone. Who? What is the cheapest? State DMV of the rate in Springfield 12 years ago? I never got taxed at the store the price was on the title App. I had not looked at. At the least I should get my late penalty fee of 30 bucks back plus title app fees? What a mess. So the new buyer should be ok with a bill of sale and get his own title and registration to make his canoe work .

Confused

I have talked to a friend who rents out canoes and he said he does not have titles for his fleet

[Al Agnew]

The only thing I wonder about is the sales taxes. It's true you don't have to title a canoe or kayak if you are only using "paddle power". The guy who bought it got bad information...he could have gotten it titled, unless things have changed from when I looked into this several years ago. I had a canoe that I was thinking of getting titled because it was possible I would be using it in Minnesota, which requires all canoes to be registered either in MN or in the state of origin. I'd bought the canoe years before that, and never bothered to title and register it because I didn't plan on using a motor on it. So I asked what could be done to title it, and the info I got was that I needed to contact the MO Highway Patrol, and an officer would come to the house and check the ID number on it to make sure it wasn't stolen, and then I could file for a title after he okayed it.

Had your buyer gone that route, no doubt he would have been liable only for the cost of the title and registration and the sales tax from the bill of sale you gave him, seems to me.

The thing I wonder about is, on a canoe, do you pay the sales tax to the retailer, like most goods, or do you pay it to the DMV, like autos? It's been a while since I bought a canoe, but as I remember I payed sales tax to the retailer.

[BilletHead]

Yes it is confusing a bit. I will go find out more tomorrow. Wish me luck with the sweet ladies at the DMV. I still look at it this way. A paddled watercraft is the same whether it is a canoe, kayak, personal pontoon or a rowboat. Yes I owe taxes but to whom and what is my best route? Anyone bought a canoe lately and to whom did you all pay the tax for it?

Billethead

[joeD]

Billethead- Don't worry. You didn't miss the boat. There was no boat to fucking miss. You're in a dither about selling a 12 year old canoe? Sales tax? The DMV? Good grief. Title? To a canoe?

Forget it. You and your buyer deserve each other. I hope you two spend months dickering about...nothing. Trust me, you two took a simple transaction and made it unnecessarily complicated.

Sorry, I gotta go before I get too worked up. I've got a toaster cozy that I'm knitting that I MUST finish before Friday.

[fishinwrench]

The female dogs at many license bureau's just love to run people through impossible obstacle courses.....they get off on it...and they saw you guys coming.

I make it a point to do my DMV biz immediately before lunchtime or right before closing time when all they care about is getting me out of there fast.

You may think I'm kidding, but it works 9 times out of 10. Which proves that all the crap they routinely put people through is completely uncalled for and unnecessary. I "have seen" plenty of real doosey's slip through and no DMV worker has ever gotten in trouble over it. They can easily make ANYTHING real quick and simple.... when they want to.

[Gavin]

You dont have to title a canoe unless you want to put a motor on it in Missouri. Wanted to register mine once.....but I found it to be more trouble than its worth. I've run a troller illegal on occassion...if I ever get caught....I'll plead stupid first, and pay the fine if ticketed.The fine will be peanuts when compared to the hassle and annual personal property taxes on a registered boat.

[ness]

JoeD -- I think you should self-limit your late-night posting

BilletHead -- sounds like you got some bad info, but did the right thing in trying to help out the guy that bought the boat from you. Live and learn; onward and upward.