Conspiracy Theory

[Justin Spencer]

We paid them to put that in there. A Few years ago we had good water all winter and the next fall were catching a few stream bred browns, but none over the last couple, they were neat fat little fish, not like the snakey normal stockers that take a while to learn the ropes.

[Brian Wise]

 

Since all trout in MO are non-native fish, ie, introduced species for the enjoyment of game fishers, what does the term "wild" really mean?

When I think of wild, I think of something that has originated in the habitat and is maintained by natural means.

What we have is introduced species that have spawned and reproduced in several streams and are considered naturally reproducing. But they are not really native wild species.

I won't get into a serious discussion about Wild vs. Native. I get both sides and defenitely lean toward the Wild fish being born in the river and Native fish being placed by the hand of God into the river.

Jdmidwest, you are along the lines of thinking that Native fish were never stocked and therefore are Wild fish. But, as someone that thinks along those lines what, in your eyes would you call the rainbows on the NFOW. They for sure aren't "stockers" as they haven't been stocked in 50 years, and since they were stocked 50 years ago, they aren't "wild". I have always wondered what category people that think along these lines put the rainbows of the NFOW in.

As for no reproduction of brown trout in the NFOW, I am with the TroutDoorsman (who is a crazy good guide that I am lucky enough to work with) we catch 1 or 2, 3" brown trout every year. Not enough for me to say that I believe there is anything serious going on, but it happens. I would be seriously suprised if there isn't a tiny population in the Current as well...just not enough to do anything about.

[laker67]

 

Not worth a debate....something slipped past the editor.

 

I use to be one of the first to jump in on something like this. But I have reached a conclusion that I am just dang lucky to have so many places to fish for trout in this great state of missouri, and could care less where they came from. When hooked up on the other end of the line, he or she, is the most spectacular sight of the day, until the next one comes along.

[Bill Butts]

Most of the fisheries folks I've discussed it with, consider a wild fish one that is naturally reproduced in the fishery.

I doubt if there is much disagreement as to what a native species is, one that is (quoting Brian) "placed by the hand of God into the river."

Our native Smallmouth Bass, I believe, is the greatest of our native fish, and not everyone realizes that White Bass are also native.

So, just for fun, here are another couple of interesting "twists":

How would you classify wild Striped Bass in Oklahoma that are captured (males and females) from the Arkansas River, releived of their eggs and sperm, then hatched artificially in a hatchery? "Artficially propogated Wild Stripers"? Almost sounds like an oxymoron, sort of like Jumbo Shrimp. The contributing parent fish are all wild self-sustaining Stripers, and are returned to the river a few weeks after their duty is complete at the hatchery. The offspring are not stocked into the AR River system, but other fisheries, so the existing AR River strain is very consistent.

Or, how would you classify the offspring from the same Stripers in the AR River crossed (hybridized) with White Bass to produce the original and most common strain of Hybrid Striped Bass? "Artificially propogated Wild Hybrid Stripers"? Their original given name was Palmetto Bass, in SC. Again, wild female Striper eggs are taken, but this time crossed with (wild) male White Bass sperm.

Well, I'm not saying I believe either should be considered truly wild, despite the fact that the fisheries folks go to great efforts to reproduce very high quality Stripers and Hybrid Stripers utilizing wild brood stock in their hatchery. Pretty cool!

[Wayne SW/MO]

The wild, native stocked, etc is a bottomless can of worms. I doubt we would have the discussion were it not for the put and take parks. Like Bill said, where do you draw the line? Walleye fit the scenario of native fish that are supplemented from the hatchery.

Our weather is different the many other areas when it comes to its effect on water. In many areas winter is pretty much the same every year and not on the edge like this area. Our winters can vary enough to change the effect on the water and its temperatures. Its not too hard to believe that there are times when browns have a successful spawn, at last some if their timing is right. I know the water temps here aren't ideal for spawning, but if they try there's always the chance some could survive.

For me, anything that is not replenished on a schedule and there is some spawning is wild enough for me.

[ness]

For me, anything that is not replenished on a schedule and there is some spawning is wild enough for me.

Bingo.

[Brian Wise]

Agreed. I have just always wondered what the people that think along those lines think about Self-Sustaining Populations Vs. Fish placed by the hand of God Vs. Stocked Fish. There are obviously BIG differences in all 3, you can't compare a NFOW Rainbow with a Trout Park Rainbow, YET...our rainbows haven't been in the river since creation. I just think it is interesting, the different ways to look at it.

[fishinwrench]

Let me get a grip on this....

Placed by the hand of God and then protected by humans.

-verses-

Placed by the hand of a human and protected by humans ?

And who placed the humans? Oh yeah...nevermind, I know the acceptable answer to that one.

Soooo, what was the question again?

(this is a genuine mind bender)

[bfishn]

If I recall my Genesis correctly, we were given "dominion over the fish of the sea"...

Whether righteously endowed or not, we've driven some species to extinction, and keep others in our homes for fun. Some live well off our crops and some are driven out by our cities. I don't think there's a critter on the planet that we haven't influenced to a significant degree.

My take on it's real simple, based on a couple things Dad said regularly;

At night, "Critters belong outside".

In the morning, "Time to feed the cows".

[The Troutdoorsman]

Certainly when fishing for wild fish verses stockers a difference can be told. I'll often guide people on NFOW, that are used to fishing in the trout parks and they will ask "where are all the fish?" As in parks and heavily stocked rivers trout can be easily seen. The wild rainbows in the North Fork have adapted to their environment so well, they are nearly invisible. Upon hooking them it can be a matter of minutes and just about when they reach the surface until you get your first sighting. Also I find wild fish to be much more skidish, not only in NFOW, but in creeks if they spot you, they will run and they might not eat again for the rest of the day. And as for the fight. A wild fish can't be beat. Even in the North Fork the browns (which I love to catch as well) when hooked just kind of thrown their weight around. They may make a run down stream or head for the bottom, but nothing compared to the rainbows. They will run upstream downstream and all over. We frequently get fish in and have people remark that they thought the fish would be bigger due to the amount of fight in the fish.