Standing In Kayaks And Canoes, And Other Stuff

[Goggle-Eyed]

I still never pass on a chance to get out and fish an area as long as I think it's necessary. I know that isn't always possible, but in many summer holding areas the current won't allow you to really work an area, much less change lures.

I agree, and I really do love fishing soft plastic's and that feeling of "tap tap tap" or Tug tug tug" and the resulting "hook set" and following sore thumb stuck in their mouth's.

Not really into the "fight" but love the bite, hookset, Thumb in mouth and release!!!! Preferably in that order!!!!

[Al Agnew]

Yep, to a great extent, how you like to fish dictates whether you get out all the time or not. I don't fish anything slow and on the bottom in warm weather unless I'm not catching fish otherwise, so I keep moving and fish on the move. A fish only gets one chance at my lure, but I try to give EVERY fish that one chance.

[OzarkFishman]

Not surprising, but I totally agree with you Al.

The only floating I had done before last week was the James and Finley. Last week I got a chance to fish 16.5 miles on the Buffalo out of a friends Old Town Pack.

I had always back stroked to get through riffles, but I wasn't used to the riffles on the Buffalo. One guy I was with told me that I had to be faster than the current. I followed the advise the whole trip and somehow never flipped, but I did get spun out and swamped half-full once. Both of which could have been avoided with slowing down and utilizing back strokes. It probably didn't help that I had two coolers, my overnight bag and other miscellaneous camping stuff with me.

I was also guilty of casting one too many times and letting the canoe turn too far out of position to correct with one hand. Though there were times that I allowed the canoe to get out turned around to cast a few extra times to likely targets. I probably "looked stupid" many times, but fishing out of that solo has changed my thought process for my next boat purchase. It will definitely be a solo canoe.

If quality and performance were first priority and cost was second, what solo canoe would you recommend?

Definitely let us know how to get ahold of that book.

[Al Agnew]

For Ozark streams, I don't think you can do better than the Wenonah Vagabond. A fairly close second might be the Wenonah Argosy, but it's slightly heavier, has higher ends (which catch more wind), and a bit of rocker (which means it might not track quite as well). If you're a big, heavy guy, or you want to do lots of multi-day float trips and need to carry plenty of cargo, the Wenonah Wilderness might be better; it's a longer, wider canoe.

Wenonah has about the best selection of Royalex solo canoes, but another one to consider, especially if the price tags on the Wenonahs turn you off, is the Mohawk Solo 14, a good all purpose solo that's definitely cheaper in price but still good quality.

Comparing any of these canoes to the Old Town Pack, or the Old Town Discovery 119, which is the same size and similar hull shape to the Pack, you'll find that they'll be faster, track better, and have a little more secondary stability. You'll also be able to stow extra rods a lot more safely and easily because of the greater length, and carry a little more gear. I owned a Pack for a long time, and it was a perfectly serviceable solo, but I like the Vagabond a lot better because of all those aspects. The 14'3" length is SO much better (specs say it's 14'6", but the Royalex version is three inches shorter).

[Nick Williams]

I don't want to hijack the thread or change the point of the post, but what if you're looking ponds and reservoirs to fish more often than streams and rivers... You don't have the obstacles and currents then. Would anyone recommend a stand up kayak for those bodies of water?

[BilletHead]

Nick,

By all means standing in a kayak is a doable. We (wife and I) fish a bunch of flat water. Ponds, lakes, slower rivers and more. We both fly fish and we can do it sitting in a bit if a higher seat and standing up. Our kayaks are diablos (Adios model)

http://www.diablopaddlesports.com/our_products The kayak vs the canoe debate will go on and on as we all have our thoughts on what we want to use. YOU should pick what fits your needs and budget. My back is shot and has been for some time. I cannot sit long or stand to long. I am like a jumping jack up and down to feel the best. If you get the right craft you can stand and be very ,very stable. I will dig up some photos to post here today of us standing in ours.. We are pleased with our choice and it fits what we like to do. Wish I lived closer to you as I would let you try a paddle around and stand up to give you and idea of what it is like,

BilletHead

[Old plug]

Years ago when when parties in canoes was new. I used to watch people navigate through outside bends and other root filled obstructions without a care in the world. It has always made me wonder why more people do not drown now day. I have seen 16 ft Jon boats sucked into root wads and broken in half and spit out the other side by current. There is nothing I respect more on a moving current than a obstruction like a root wad or anything else you can be swept into and trapped. A few years ago we went with a large group from our lodge tubing on the current river. I would not go into any shoot I could not see through or any shoot with a bend and root wads in that tube. I would get out of the tube and tie a rope onto my wife's tube And walk us through. Well we went a couple miles and we all came into a blind shoot all bunched up with the beer coolers and what have you and I just knew there was going to be a pile up. There were a few comments about me being chicken. But they rammed into a big root wad and several of them got slammed on it on top of one another. Nobody drowned. Do not think they realized how darn close they came to it. Rivers big are small are living things. I do not care how well you paddle but you better not loose your respect for the moving water and its capabilities.

[OzarkFishman]

Al, thanks for the reply.

I am assuming that you have the Vagabond ..Which model do you have (Royalex, Tuf-weave flex-core, kevlar flex-core, kevlar ultra-light)?

The Pack that I paddled is royalex. While the weight was amazing, it seemed to be 2 paper thin pieces of royalex with foam between them. Is royalex durable. I loved how it slides over stuff, but how does royalex stand up to long time use and the occasional accidental bump into stuff.

Sorry for completing the hijack of the paddling thread ...

[grizwilson]

the newer packs are pretty thin, I bought mine in 2009, less than 200 miles on it, granted we had a couple of low water years, and at 5'10" 240 ih hauls a load.Butt it looks in worse shape than my 12 year old camper. Like the light, but if were to do over it would be the Wenonah Vagabond.

[Al Agnew]

Al, thanks for the reply.

I am assuming that you have the Vagabond ..Which model do you have (Royalex, Tuf-weave flex-core, kevlar flex-core, kevlar ultra-light)?

The Pack that I paddled is royalex. While the weight was amazing, it seemed to be 2 paper thin pieces of royalex with foam between them. Is royalex durable. I loved how it slides over stuff, but how does royalex stand up to long time use and the occasional accidental bump into stuff.

Sorry for completing the hijack of the paddling thread ...

My Vagabond is Royalex. I've got a new one ordered which will come in sometime in the next couple of weeks, hopefully.

Royalex is fairly durable, but it does seem like some of the newer Royalex canoes aren't as durable as older models. "Royalex" consists of a vinyl outer skin, a hard but flexible ABS plastic inner layer, and foam in the middle of the sheet. The vinyl is fairly resistant to UV rays, but scratches rather easily. The ABS layer is tougher, but is susceptible to UV damage. The beauty of Royalex is that it is lighter than other plastics, and has excellent memory...if you wrap it around a rock, it will spring back into more or less its original shape. Not perfectly, it will look somewhat crinkled. But it can still be usable.

So the bottom of a Royalex canoe will get scratched up rather quickly, but it takes hard knocks against rocks better than most other canoe materials. If the scratches go through the outer vinyl layer, it's best to cover them. There are several fairly easy methods of doing that. If they go all the way into the foam layer, a serious repair is in order, but it's still a do-it-yourself job.

FYI, it's more difficult to repair deep scratches in the poly "Discovery" canoes made by Old Town than it is to repair Royalex, but the poly is a little tougher...it's also quite a bit heavier.

As for the tough weave flex core, and the kevlar models of the Vagabond...Kevlar has the benefit of being very light in weight, but it's also rather brittle and doesn't take hard knocks well at all. The tough weave is a fiberglass, and while fiberglass is a surprisingly decent material for Ozark streams, it's a lot noisier than Royalex for a fishing canoe.

If you get a Royalex canoe from Wenonah, you can order it with skid plates already attached. I never do that, because the skid plates take a bit away from paddling performance, but it could be a good idea. Most of the wear you'll suffer will be where the skid plates are installed.