C&r Vs Gigging

[aarchdale@coresleep.com]

I only gig for suckers. But I a see a far I have no problem killing it so he doesn't eat any of our smallies

[Kayser]

Fished the Bourbeuse a couple times this week, chasing fish for dinner. I released the largemouth and smallmouth, and 2 of the 20 keeper size fish I caught had gig marks on them- nothing else makes those kinds of wounds. Largemouth with lines of missing scales, and one hole behind his head, smallmouth with two lines of missing scales (one on each side). Biggest redhorse was only about 2.5lbs, as well. I wouldn't think the river had enough water around there for jetboats, but I guess I'd be wrong.

Didn't gill-hook any of the C&R fish, or tear them up at all. Did catch a couple smaller ones with holes in their mouths, but nothing horrible.

[Gavin]

That doesnt look like a gig wound....Maybe that bass spent some time spinning around on an limb or trot line....Unattended lines are a problem too.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I've fished for a long time and spent a lot of time surveying lakes and streams. I've never seen damage like that on a bass. Trotline damage on catfish from time to time, and it makes some nasty wounds. Looks like some idiot just ripped a treble free with pliers with no regard for the fish, but if it was healthy enough to feed and and be caught, it will probably make it.

The only reason that people are against gigging, is that some of the giggers target bass, trout, walleye illegally. I don't see how that can compare to catch and release angling, which is encouraged by almost every state resource agency. Sure, a few fish will die if they are badly hooked, but the majority of even badly hooked fish will survive. I have seen it firsthand.

I agree with every thing you just said.

As far as the wound on this particular fish, I was thinking it was a spinnerbait that stuck in the boney plate of the jaw hinge. I say that because I have stuck some fish in that very area with spinnerbait and buzzbaits and they can be very difficult to remove. This wound is relatively fresh from the looks of it.

[Chief Grey Bear]

For some reason, I've caught several bass with wounds on their mouths like that this year, when usually I don't see more than one or two a year. I don't know what it is this year, but there seem to be a lot more people fishing the rivers and a lot more people either keeping the fish or apparently "releasing" them with no regard whatsoever about how they unhook them.

I gotta wonder if some, perhaps very small, part of it is the reward tag program, though I've caught fish on streams that aren't a part of the tagging program that have the wounds as well. But there is something inherently distasteful to me about putting that kind of money on a fish. I know that Corey has reported a lot more people fishing the Courtois around the season opener than usual, apparently trying to catch those tagged fish. When all you're doing it for is the money, you tend to not care much about the fish you catch that don't have tags.

As for the infamous bleeding fish Chief mentioned, I've "proven" to my own satisfaction that bass CAN live after being seriously gill-hooked. I know because I've caught healthy fish with significant, long-healed gill wounds, including one that had one whole section of gill torn away and hanging out the gill cover. I've also caught fish that bled seriously like that which I released into my pond, and re-caught them weeks later, completely healed and healthy. A bass can bleed pretty copiously and still survive. And if you catch one that's bleeding like that, even if you want the picture as we did that day, it helps a lot to immediately dip the fish back in the water, and keep doing it if it takes some time to get the hook out. Fish blood coagulates VERY quickly in water, but doesn't coagulate much at all out of the water. To prove it to yourself, watch when you dip a bleeding fish in the water. The blood can be running, completely liquid, down its side, but when you dip it in the water, the blood on its side actually comes off and instantly turns to chunks of semi-solid matter.

So while I don't WANT to hook a fish in such a way that it bleeds, when it happens I don't automatically write that fish off. You unhook it and hope for the best.

The problem with gigging isn't with individual fish being horribly wounded and killed. The problem is the effect gigging could have on the size structure of the fish population. Hook and line catch and release anglers don't catch all that many big fish, they catch fish of all sizes. If, say, 5% of those they catch end up dying after release, that's 5% of fish of all sizes, and since they don't catch that many big ones to begin with, it's 5% of very few total big fish. But giggers, if so inclined, target big fish, and probably don't bother with gigging small ones, and every big one they gig either ends up dead or badly wounded and unhealthy to probably die later. So while I might have killed that one big fish that Chief mentioned, if so it was probably the only big fish I killed that winter, while a single unethical gigger could kill a bunch of them purposely.

Like you, I catch a few of this fish every year. Though this one is the most severe that I have encountered. Most have some pretty nasty wounds that will heal.

And you are right on, on how tough fish are. Growing up, if I saw a fish bleeding, I always believed it was a death sentence. It is what I was taught. I still released them though. But over time, through years of observation, I have concluded that a large percentage of these fish survive and this one is just more proof. For the longest time I thought trout were very fragile, when the opposite is more true. And it is no different with other species. I have seen a bass with gill that was ripped from the bottom of the gill. It was healed and the fish was just fine.

I shouldn't have used your bleeding fish above. I wanted to use this fish compared to the pics of gigged fish you taken. In that yes we have some unethical giggers, and yes it appears we have the same with the C&R crowd.

[Mitch f]

I believe the illegal giggers are going to get religion soon

[Gavin]

I think that MDC needs to adjust its violation system to discourage illegal gigging. Gig a gamefish..no fishing or hunting of any kind for a year, no deer permits for two!

[Smalliebigs]

see ya

[Mitch f]

Thats hard to read Kayser......I hate to say it, my friend had similar reports from the Bourb as well.....I'm pretty sure it's isolated and not a wide srpead problem on the Bourb but, that doesn't make me feel any better about it. I will say my buddy and I who love and fish the Bourb will be extremely diligent in trying to help authorities if they are willing to bust these morons......the hammer needs to be brought down on these people......they launch from the most isolated and private ramps in the middle of the night like vampires, it's a tough to catch these poachers in the act but easy to see what they have done.

You're absolutely right, it's tough to catch them in the act, but it is possible......a couple of well engineered sting operations combined with harsh punishment will be the tipping point I'm sure. Up until now there hasn't been enough public outrage. The biggest problem is that some organizations don't see it as a problem worth dealing with. That's changing quickly because we are well documented and passionate and now have the ear of the right people.

[jdmidwest]

Sounds like that river is getting pounded pretty hard. Those are going to leave some ugly scars.

Is that one of the streams the MDC put a bounty on by tagging a few fish with reward tags?

Local reports around here are the Black River and Castor River have been hit pretty hard by the ones that are out to collect the tags and some meat. Bringing alot of attention to small streams with a reward tag system seems to have a detrimental effect on the fishing on this side of the state.