Meramec River Shooting

[moguy1973]

Sounds like intoxication had a heavy hand in the outcome of all of this.

[Quillback]

"He's waving his gun at everybody," she added. "He shot between Bobby and Paul on the ground. He shot in the air, too." - Right or wrong, I'm out of there at this point.

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Absolutely, someone starts shooting I'm outta there. They should have left when they saw the guy had a gun in his hand.

[Greasy B]

No surprise here, most folks are clueless about stream access, even folks on this forum who should know better wonder whether the victim was on public or private land, it's all private. The outfitters who are profiting from the tourist should take some responcabilty to educate their clients.

[Justin Spencer]

Typical drunk behavior, 10 foot tall and bulletproof, that's why the river is no place for a gun. Obviously they should have left the gravel bar, as you never know how crazy someone is. The shooter seems nuts and needs to be put away now or he will really feel empowered next time someone steps on "HIS" gravel bar.

The interview shows how even law enforcement's interpretation of owner rights is varied, which only leads to more confusion.

[Justin Spencer]

No surprise here, most folks are clueless about stream access, even folks on this forum who should know better wonder whether the victim was on public or private land, it's all private. The outfitters who are profiting from the tourist should take some responcabilty to educate their clients.

I tell people not to stop in someone's front yard, or in posted areas, but I think you are mistaken in your interpretation of the law. Basically it gives the right to camp and portage in areas that can be covered with water under normal river conditions (which means not flood stage) or in simpler terms the high water mark. I have people camp on my gravel bar who are on two day trips and have no problem with it. If they walk up and use my bathrooms then they are trespassing, but as long as they stay below the high water mark they have the right to be there.

It is true that I profit from the tourism, but so does the entire state in taxes, and many different suppliers from many fields. Fuel companies, ice companies, boat companies, t-shirt companies, soda companies, beer companies, the list goes on and on. This is a huge industry for our state and much of our business comes from out of state and helps add to Missouri's tax base as well as pumping big money into the poorest counties in the state.

[Feathers and Fins]

I am the biggest hater of imminent domain as a rule but this is a case where Missouri should just exert authority and make all ( floatable ) rivers fall in to it from center of river to high water mark. End the confusion end the problems for good.

[Fishslayer88]

I found a couple of quotes interesting:

A 1971 attorney general's opinion said if the river is "navigable" the state owns the bed of the river; but if it is "non-navigable," title is in the owner of record. That opinion listed the Meramec River in Crawford County as non-navigable. I didn't realize there was a county by county list. Where is that?

"My cousin Bobby went up to go pee in the woods, and this guy comes out behind him with a gun and says, 'This is my private property. Get the (expletive) off of it.' - If he went in the trees, he would have been above the waterline unless they were scrub trees on the beach.

"He's waving his gun at everybody," she added. "He shot between Bobby and Paul on the ground. He shot in the air, too." - Right or wrong, I'm out of there at this point.

Then, Loretta Dart said, her cousin picked up a rock but her husband stood between her cousin and the gunman. She said the gunman looked crazed.

"My husband tried to calm the guy down," she said. "He went to the guy's arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face. - So let me get this straight... guy has a gun (right or wrong) and mulitiple folks approach him some with rocks in there hands...and...on of them reach for the gun and is shot. I don't know, this guy might get off on self defense. If I was on a jury and this story was told this story by the victims wife... could be reasonable doubt to me much less some local landowner from the area.

Is this the story from the niangua shooting?

[mic]

I tell people not to stop in someone's front yard, or in posted areas, but I think you are mistaken in your interpretation of the law. Basically it gives the right to camp and portage in areas that can be covered with water under normal river conditions (which means not flood stage) or in simpler terms the high water mark. I have people camp on my gravel bar who are on two day trips and have no problem with it. If they walk up and use my bathrooms then they are trespassing, but as long as they stay below the high water mark they have the right to be there.

It is true that I profit from the tourism, but so does the entire state in taxes, and many different suppliers from many fields. Fuel companies, ice companies, boat companies, t-shirt companies, soda companies, beer companies, the list goes on and on. This is a huge industry for our state and much of our business comes from out of state and helps add to Missouri's tax base as well as pumping big money into the poorest counties in the state.

I don't know that to be true: A 1971 attorney general's opinion said if the river is "navigable" the state owns the bed of the river; but if it is "non-navigable," title is in the owner of record. That opinion listed the Meramec River in Crawford County as non-navigable.

[Justin Spencer]

I am the biggest hater of imminent domain as a rule but this is a case where Missouri should just exert authority and make all ( floatable ) rivers fall in to it from center of river to high water mark. End the confusion end the problems for good.

Agreed!

I don't know that to be true: A 1971 attorney general's opinion said if the river is "navigable" the state owns the bed of the river; but if it is "non-navigable," title is in the owner of record. That opinion listed the Meramec River in Crawford County as non-navigable.

opinion is the key word here, I was going off what was said in supreme court case, and assuming from the story it is a popular part of the Meramec where this occurred.

[Greasy B]

I am the biggest hater of imminent domain as a rule but this is a case where Missouri should just exert authority and make all ( floatable ) rivers fall in to it from center of river to high water mark. End the confusion end the problems for good.

Todays political climate is not good for testing the court case or passing legislation to favor public access. It may well go the other way and we end up with access laws akin to Wyoming or Colorado where our floating and camping tradition could never exist.