Joe Bald Rd. Park Gonna Be Locked Up?

[MOPanfisher]

Wayne, what park are you referreing to at Pomme. At site trash pick up stopped over 20 years ago, and we haven't stopped cutting grass, some places we have pulled back the mowing area, closed some poorly utilized areas and mow less frequently. Mowing grass is one of the more expensive items on our list. I can explain that the proposed closing of Joe Bald area is related to a set of measurements including effeciency and usage, when both are low, its hard to score well. The Federal Government is looking hard at moving to a more efficient way of doing business, and the DOD has saluted and said yes sir, as they should. Now 20+ years of "getting by" and keeping places like Joe Bald open with little usage and little $ spend are just not going to fly. Definitely contact the Public Affairs about it, and get a homeowners association together that is willing to enter into a binding agreement to keep open and maintain the access road and ramp at Joe Bald, I bet you can get their interest.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Outlet. I don't know about sites, but they picked up at the group up until a couple years ago. I'm not complaining and my family has no illusions of being too good to haul our own trash to the dumpster. I know there are also 2 sites occupied by what I assume are full time "stewards".

I understand what you're saying about measurements. I suppose what I'm saying is that possibly they could bring in the public in order to accomplish very limited maintenance in order to keep minimal services open.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not the fan of the COE that I was 10 or 20 years ago. They seem to be more inclined to think of the recreational mission as a pain and a necessary evil. At least in some districts, It seems more prevalent in the LR district than the KC district. In fact with my limited knowledge I can't think of a KC district complaint.

[MOPanfisher]

You are correct about the two full time volunteers in Outlet Park. They are required to work 20 hrs a week in exchange for a free campsite, you would be surprised at how difficult it is to get and keep a good volunteer, and as much as I like to harass them they are hard workers, doing things we often don't get the time to do.

I will add that the COE at the district levels don't consider recreation as a pain but as a primary duty, its when it goes above that level that it gets tougher to sell to the men and women who wear camoflauge. Don't get me wrong they are by and large a great group of people, very professional but its tough to get them to see the up side of the recreation world when it is compared to more military projects, or levees, locks, flood fights, channel dredging etc. There are those in the higher echelon who would love to give away or lease out all recreation areas, however most are not profitable for the private sector, and who wants to lease a money pit. There are also those old guys like me who simply don't want to let go of anything and continue to "eat" the budget cuts, manpower cuts, increasing regulation and oversight and march along trying to do the same things with less and less. I'm not complaining and banging the "more money bell", as a taxpayer it hurts me to see what is being done to the organization. I know many of the folks in the Little Rock District (and others) and believe me when I say they are all fighting to keep as much as possible open and useable, finding new ways of funding things and doing business that in many ways are cutting edge. The White River Heritage Foundation or whatever might be the correct name is one of those ways. The folks in LR District stepped out on a very wobbly limb to find a way to keep most of the parks open, and they are doing it. Honestly comparing Table Rock to most other COE areas is unfair, the area there is so much different that it is difficult to describe to someone who hasn't seen it firsthand. But trust me they are great stewards in a VERY tough area. Saying they aren't getting much done is kind of like saying "man that canoe didn't do very well in the race", then realizing that canoe was being paddled by a single one armed man. The time of big budgets are over for most of the COE, now you had better have a darn good program, and be willing to defend it to keep a portion of what you had. Many districts had already closed their "Joe Balds" some years back, Little Rock was able to keep them open longer than the rest of us, now they are finally having to give up some things to save others. I wish it wasn't that way but it is and getting more so every year. Each and every one of the COE employees lives, works and plays there, they all want to keep it as welcoming to the public as possible, some things simply can't be done. Sorry didn't mean to become the COE's defender but maybe just sometimes I get up on a little soapbox, probably fall off one day.

[Quillback]

No need to apologize MOpanfisher, thanks for the perspective from the COE side of things. I always say that we are lucky to have the COE parks and ramps on our big lakes in his area. Keep up the good work!

[bfishn]

No need to apologize MOpanfisher, thanks for the perspective from the COE side of things. I always say that we are lucky to have the COE parks and ramps on our big lakes in his area. Keep up the good work!

Seconded!

[Feathers and Fins]

I have been following this thread and listening to all perspectives. I have been fortunate enough to see many different parks around the country and just have to wonder why Corps Parks seem to me to be on the bottom of the scale. I don’t want that to sound like a put down but it seems as they are the least used and advantages of them wasted.

I just do not understand why they cannot be managed like some of the other parks I have visited. I have seen parks who build museums in the for the history of the area, parks where there were restaurants in them and parks that were opened much longer into the winter even and promoted with year round activities.

Now I understand budgets are always a problem for anyplace but just seems as the COE does not take full advantage of the potential of their property. Is they were to build up a “boardwalk” area around the park and leased property for shops and dinners they could have year round revenue for the parks making them not only self sufficient but profitable allowing for purchase of more lands or improvements.

Understandably you need to be around populated areas for the bigger more extravagant type of parks, but those parks could help fund the smaller parks and just plain ramps maintenance on the lake, keeping all of them open and maintained.

How much money do you think could be generated off of Tablerocks dam park if they put in a boardwalk with dinners and shops? Maybe up even up the fees at the parks for parking or boating? It just seems more could be done to enhance the parks and even expand opportunity.

[MOPanfisher]

Fins & Feathers, I fully understand what you are saying, COE parks are not handled like private parks and intentionally so. The intent is to maintain the area as naturally as possible, understanding that there are accomodations for campsites, roads restrooms etc, but the decisions to not create theme parks out of public lands has been enforced pretty well over the decades. In reality would you want a "White Water" or "Worlds of fun" type atmosphere in the COE Parks. Part of it is an attempt to protect the resources (land and water), since COE parks are right on the lakeshore, partly to attempt to protect private business.

[Feathers and Fins]

Mo, I could understand it to a degree, but with the high usage of the lake and all the private docks and homes on the lake the mission has changed IMO. If the COE wanted to maintain the land and water as natural as possible then allowing for Docks ( unsightly and certainly not natural ) should never have been allowed as it is counter productive to maintaining the natural look of the lake as ( the lake itself is COE property ).

I would love to be able to go out to dinner on the lake or spend an afternoon walking a boardwalk type area with my wife or visiting friends from out of state. I am not talking development of the entire lake but only the Corps Parks maybe expanding them a little to accommodate a little more. They already are to a degree a ( worlds of fun ) and why I avoid them like the plague during summer. But with the added revenue I could see added patrols and security which would settle that down and make it more enjoyable. I have a feeling more people would as well. Just my 2cent.

[vernon]

_{Unfortunately, that is neither the intended role nor mission of the COE. And even if it was, such an undertaking would require funding through congressional dollars and I think we all know what the odds are of that happening. What you envision would be more of a Morale, Welfare and Recreation type function more similar to Lake of the Ozarks Recreation Area (LORA) that is operated by MWR at Fort Leonard Wood. That being said, the majority of these types of recreation areas are available ONLY to active duty and retired military, their dependents and DOD civilian employees.}

_{There are many, many "colors" of money in the federal government and seldom does one color bleed over to another. These funds are appropriated by congress base upon projected needs and annual budgets. Oh wait, that's right we STILL don't have an approved federal budget for 2013 when the fiscal year ENDS September 31, 2013. Believe me, the Corps hands are tied (and in most cases behind their back) when it comes to exploring new avenues of producing new revenue or investing additonal funds into existing projects.}

_{Consider, if you will, the fact that ALL Corps employees have had their salaries frozen for FOUR years and counting because the President says "we" all need to do our part. Then as of mid July, thanks to the sequester, those same employees have had their work week reduced to what amounts to a 20% reduction in pay annually. Two of the major reasons I personally decided to retire before they took that away too. Like many other federal entities, the Corps is simply trying to survive until (hopefully) a more rational thinking and responsible congress is in place. In the meantime we all will continue to experience reduced services and suffer accordingly.}

[Feathers and Fins]

I actually think its funding could be done by private business's that wish to partake. I also unfortunately know that under this particular political administration and congress the thought of private business's being a solution to job creation, infrastructure and recreation is not what they want.

As a contractor I can see a project like I am talking about creating at minimum of 500 jobs on site another 500 to 1000 support jobs and when completed depending on how many shops and dinners and recreational venues are created many more full time jobs. It would generate millions of dollars for the communities and the COE.

We hear all the time about these projects of infrastructure and see the 1000.00 signs telling us about them and truthfully some will only be used by a few where if they put the money to use on not just them but recreational infrastructure that far more people would use and be able to enjoy for long term money generating venues it would go much further to helping the Nation.

A road is nice to travel on but doesn't generate jobs or revenue. A recreational area would generate jobs and revenue that would benefit the communities around it. It makes since and this is why politicians and government agencies wont get behind it.