Federal Hatcheries Closing?

[Al Agnew]

You might all think i am crazy but there is going to be a class war in this country. You can bet your life on it.

I'm not far from agreeing with you. We can celebrate the "American way" of everybody making as much money as they can all we want, but when the haves have so much influence and power that there is no way the have-nots can become haves, and when the have-nots continue to languish at best and sink further at worst while they watch the upper haves continue to make ever more obscene amounts of money and garner ever more obscene amounts of power and influence, at some point they are going to get fed up with it. And meanwhile, we all attack whichever ideology we don't believe in and continue to be ever more divided, while the big money people encourage it while raking in the money and influence. Maybe the only way we DON'T eventually have a class war is that the lower classes will never be able to agree to work together against the upper class, instead continuing to beat up on each other and have pipe dreams that they too can break into the upper class because, you know, America is the land of opportunity.

Note that I can't complain too much. I could probably be considered one of the haves, though not one of the upper haves. And I got where I am because of talent and hard work and a wife who was good at business and dealing with people. I also can't complain about the fact that the stock market continues to rise--record high on the DOW today, since I've got a lot of retirement money in it. But it's interesting that the stock market is doing so well while the people on the low end of the economy continue to do so poorly. “Over the last dozen years,” Leibovich writes, “corporate America (much of it Wall Street) has tripled the amount of money it has spent on lobbying and public affairs consulting in D.C.

Coincidence?

[Justin Spencer]

Seems like a certain party uses guns and God to keep the have nots on their side against their best interest. I must say it is a brilliant strategy!

[Mitch f]

Seems like a certain party uses guns and God to keep the have nots on their side against their best interest. I must say it is a brilliant strategy!

AHHHH Justin, the sword cuts both ways. There's a certain demographic of people who have done much worse under the current administration regardless of the recession/depression, But they continue to vote for the incumbent....I must say it's a brilliant strategy too

[Old plug]

I certainly do not want to see it AL but I can see no way to alter what we are doing to ourselves. I have always enjoyed history and what is happening here in this country has been repeated Time and again through history.I and my neighbor friend discuss this stuff a lot. He is a political opposite of me. In spite of this we can get along very well. We might have a hard discussion about something but it always end with a good note of humor about the futility of the whole darn foolish situation.

I am just waiting AL for some strong firebrand leader to raise up.This person. Is going to be another John L Lewis or Martin Luther King. He is going to unite all the have nots regardless of race, religion or what have you. Just the same as Lewis and KIng did. I hope that when it happens the changes can be as peaceful as possible. I do not believe most have nots hold it against wealthy people for having money. What they do hate though is cheating others to get that money. A lot of have not peole do not want to run in the upper crust. I am that way. I am happy where I am. Money will not buy that.

[Quillback]

And if you've studied history, when the "have nots" rebel and replace the "haves" you just end up with a new group of "haves". Kick out the Czar, you end up with Stalin, kick out Louis the XVII (or whatever Roman numeral he was) you end up with Napoleon. Look at what has happened to China since the cultural revolution.

[Feathers and Fins]

I have had this conversation before, my personal belief is we will see a revolution of sorts and their will be blood. The blood will be minimal and confined to Politicians on the Federal level as any good revolutionary knows you need to cut the head off the problem. There will also be some minor death toll in the streets of large cities when the typical rioting starts up.

There will be changes to our constitution but as a whole it will remain in tact. Even in our first Revolution the South maintained it in very much its original form with few alterations. It is the best document written and the new government will use it with slight modifications. I believe it will have changes to the Taxation clauses where the People would vote on any new tax! Also it would do away with income taxation! The first Amendment would be altered as to Freedom of press to insist on truthful reporting and religion and government clearly defined. The second Ammendment would also be clearly defined. I think we would see this done in the addition of a few new amendments certainly ones designed for term limits and balanced budgets.

The constitution does not need much change and if it wasn't for Lawyers and Judges "opinions" and "twisting's" of it the document would be as good today as it was when it was signed. It truly only needs to have some minor changes to it to restore it to what it was written to mean. The sad thing is it was written so perfectly it is easy to read and understand it is only the twisting of lawyers and politicians and judges who are less than blind that has damaged the integrity of the document.

If this revolution was to happen today I believe an interim government would be quickly set-up and most likely Rand Paul would be the President as he seems to be viewed from many from all parties and someone who cares about the country. Americans as a whole despite the media and what politicians say are not that divided and want solid leadership and people who will look after the country. Paul has shown that quality better than most. Even starch democrat friends of mine are thinking of voting for him if he runs and that blew me away when they told me.

[Justin Spencer]

AHHHH Justin, the sword cuts both ways. There's a certain demographic of people who have done much worse under the current administration regardless of the recession/depression, But they continue to vote for the incumbent....I must say it's a brilliant strategy too

Very true, the incumbent regardless of party always has the upper hand, Bush and Obama both benefitted from being the incumbent, and while neither deserved to be re-elected their opponents were unimpressive as well so the nation went with the known product.

I agree with you F&F, the constitution does not need much change, but the fact is it was written over 200 years ago and it must change with the times as the framers could not have predicted the crazy changes in technology that were to occur. I don't forsee a violent revolution unless it was to come from within the government, hard to imagine taking on our military with AR 15's and shotguns. A peaceful revolution is a distinct possibility as freedom of speech allows us to protest and have peaceful assemblies, which if joined by the majority could bring about significant change. Capitalism is always going to benefit the haves as it takes money to make money, not sure if it is harder now than in the past to climb the ladder of success, but most people seem to think so. Won't be easy to fix our debt as we want to take care of our seniors, and seem to want to be the world police, both of which take lots of money.

[Flysmallie]

Maybe the only way we DON'T eventually have a class war is that the lower classes will never be able to agree to work together against the upper class,

And that's exactly why they keep the Republican vs Democrat pot stirred. As long as you are divided you can do nothing to stop them. This forum proves that point everyday.

[Al Agnew]

The fly in the ointment is that the haves have co-opted various subsets of the have-nots and the barely haves. The Wall Street and banking moguls are running things to suit themselves, but the difference between now and 50 years ago is that a whole lot of the middle class are invested in the stock market in their retirement plans and have a big stake in seeing it do well, where before only the "haves" played the market. All these giant companies "too big to fail" have the middle class by the gonads as well, because if they fail they take the market down with them, and there goes all our 401Ks. In reality there isn't much difference in the two parties when it comes to protecting the haves, regardless of the rhetoric about either taxing them to death or cutting their taxes, but one party plays to "God and guns" subset of the have-nots, the other plays to the "victim" have-nots, as Justin and Mitch have pointed out. All at the same time that both are doing the bidding of their corporate and Wall Street buddies, which is where the money is, money to keep them in office and money to provide them with a golden parachute once they leave office.

[Justin Spencer]

All at the same time that both are doing the bidding of their corporate and Wall Street buddies, which is where the money is, money to keep them in office and money to provide them with a golden parachute once they leave office.

And therein lies the problem.