Poaching Season

[LarrySTL]

Whether it is legal or not is not the problem. Which not all rod and reelers follow the law either. In fact I would wager there are far more rod and reelers that poach than giggers. And that is my main point. I believe, and with good reason, that there are far more large bass, and just bass in general, being harvested both legally and illegally by the rod and reelers than by giggers.

I fully understand that giggers can decimate a stretch of water. But one must also realize that rod and reelers can do as much or more damage on a far greater scale by virtue of shear numbers of participants and having far greater mobility.

The question is do we want to unite and try and create plausible solutions that could possibly be adopted by the MDC therefore making a positive impact or do we want to continue our tradition of constant complaining on this and other related subjects year after year? That is the most import question that I believe always goes unanswered.

But hey, cyber complaining is an Ozark tradition that has been around since the invention of the Internet !!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Its not whether I believe it or not, as I have stated I don't know how many times over the years now, I do believe there are some bass as well as other species, that are illegally gigged. Can illegal giggers do damange? Of course. Any illegal activity does damage. I have never denied that.

The fact still remains that on average MDC sells 2.5 million fishing permits per year. If only 25% of that number fished the rivers and only kept 1 limit per year, that would still be 3.75 million fish. It is easy to see where the vast amount of damage is coming from whether one wants to admit it or not.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I think the number of legally kept smallmouth is being downplayed for some reason. Most of the local people around here that go smallmouth fishing keep all legal fish when they go out. I see pictures from friends all the time of nice 15" plus smallmouth that they catch on NFoW and Bryant creek, and they usually keep a limit when they go.

Exactly! That is what I have trying to get across. We have already brainstormed the ideas to make a win win for the resouce and fishermen on workable regulations. But no one seems to want to work towards getting the ball rolling. I have offered 3 times in the last few months, once just this morning, to get together and work on this. But woe is me and it won't happen in my life time. Well probably not if your only avenue is this forum.

But hey, cyber complaining is an Ozark tradition that has been around since the invention of the Internet !!

Thank you big Al.

Gore that is.

[Terrierman]

I say if it's gigging season, go ahead and shoot your limit.

[MOsmallies]

I think the number of legally kept smallmouth is being downplayed for some reason. Most of the local people around here that go smallmouth fishing keep all legal fish when they go out. I see pictures from friends all the time of nice 15" plus smallmouth that they catch on NFoW and Bryant creek, and they usually keep a limit when they go.

Exactly! That is what I have trying to get across. We have already brainstormed the ideas to make a win win for the resouce and fishermen on workable regulations. But no one seems to want to work towards getting the ball rolling. I have offered 3 times in the last few months, once just this morning, to get together and work on this. But woe is me and it won't happen in my life time. Well probably not if your only avenue is this forum.

I don't think any of us doubt this, but these people are doing exactly what you said... LEGALLY keeping LEGAL sized Smallmouth using a LEGAL method. No matter how much we may hate people keeping smallmouth legally, we can't turn them into the authorities for doing anything wrong. It's obvious that more smallmouth are removed from our streams every year by legal methods and "over-the-limit" harvest than by illegal gigging. That's a fact that I don't dispute. However, that doesn't discount the fact that illegal gigging is still GREATLY hurting our already slim trophy Smallmouth populations. You're lying to yourself if you think it's easier for a rod and reel angler to catch an 18" smallmouth than a poaching gigger. I've only caught one over 18" this year.

The point of this thread wasn't intended to discount all of the other factors that are and could be hurting our overall smallmouth populations. It wasn't intended to bash ethical giggers practicing within the law. It was intended to notify anglers of a very REAL and illegal situation that is taking place on our rivers every gigging season. It was intended to ask for their help if they witness illegal poaching.... and it was intended to show people the resources they can contact should they see illegal poaching taking place.

In the end, we're all here for the same reason. We love our streams, our fish, and the outdoors in general. No one on this site is intending to ruin our resources. We're all trying to better it for ourselves and the future generations. And we're trying to prevent those who are hurting our resources.

And Chief I agree with you on needing the regulations changed. I would love to help if at all possible.

[Seth]

Seth... I agree with you 100%. I personally don't have any issues with legal, ethical, law-abiding giggers who are targeting suckers. I'm sure it's a blast and I would probably enjoy it. I'm sure ethical giggers, such as yourself, would probably be in favor of more enforcement at the accesses to weed out the poachers that are making a bad name for giggers.

I would love to see that happen but I know it's not feasible. Heck they can't even keep up with the poachers during deer season and deer hunting is a lot bigger than gigging. My boat doesn't have anything to hide so I would welcome being checked at the ramp by an agent.

"You are exactly correct, poaching of any type will never stop. Can it be slowed, possibly. But there is still a predominantly large portion of the fishing public that are law abiding. I am of the belief that if we have have a change to stricter regulations on unimpounded waters of this state, it will make a positive effect on the resource"

I couldn't agree more Britt, I have been waiting on some tighter regs for a long time but, I'm with Al Agnew I not real positive anything will happen in my lifetime and like Al I'm starting to think it's not worth my frustration to worry about it anymore.

I'm sorry to any of the ethical gigers who I may have offended with the title of this thread but, I think if some of you were seeing what Mitch, Al, Nick and I are seeing in the fall and winter on the Middle Meramec you would be mortified as well. So I don't blame you guys for thinking I'm over the top on this issue, you are not seeing what we are. Al said once, fishing and floating rivers is like a religion for him and feel exactly the same way. When these things that you hold so close to your heart and truly have a passion for get attacked you tend to get a little offended. There is a incident that Mitch Fields told me about with two of the best river fisherman I know that involves gigging from a few years back that makes my heart sink. I personally have seen really bad evidence of illegal gigging in Franklin county on the Meramec, which is one of the best trophy areas in the state and that hurts bad. I have also seen evidence on the upper Big river at my secondary home, which also hurts bad as both of these streams are what I consider my home streams. I just wanted people to keep an eye out and try to report and possibly it will change the MDC opinion as to what is happening out there.

No offense taken smalliebigs. I'm sure you have a very good reason for for thoughts towards gigging. If I wasn't a gigger myself, I would probably think along the same lines. From what I've overheard, a lot of the guys who have the "kill everything" that swims mentality are ones who have private river accesses well away from the public ramps so the chances of getting caught are pretty well non existent especially if they are frying the fish up right away.

[Fishslayer88]

check out Troutnut69's blog I prefer my suds in amber bottles.

My drink of choice is Red Diamond tea.

[bfishn]

I have no dogs in this hunt, but was interested enough to research a little. There's some wild stuff out there, some that makes the tone here (improvement noted and appreciated!) look tame. Some of them trout guys are crazy.

I was curious about the penalties, and found the list of current fines;

http://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=1988

The one of interest;

3903002 TAKE GAME FISH BY SPEAR FISHING fine: $149.50 costs: $85.50 total: $235.00

for the first one, $15 each for any more> On a scale that tops at $385 (for giving a sturgeon a wanton glance), it's about midway. Even if you stacked on a few charges, it's a cakewalk compared to having your truck tags expire while you were in the bar. Trust me (and don't ask).

[Greasy B]

Doesn't look like they raised the fine levels since the 1970's.

[bfishn]

I think like anything else, they follow the money, and the deer and turkey violations pay the bills better. There are lawyers in missouri that advertise for those charges, I didn't see any looking for the gigger trade.