Opinions On Guide Guarantees... And Should I Be As Mad As I Am?

[flyman]

I was looking for a guide to show me the ropes on catching seasonal walleye on a local Ozarks body of water. I found him through his website. We arranged to go yesterday after It was recommended by him that this time of year is his favorite time to go. I actually thought it peaked a little bit later but I agreed to go (he's the professional not me, right?). After a six hour long day, I managed to not catch a single fish. Not a walleye, not a bass, not a crappie, not a thing!!! At the end of the trip I still had to cough up $250. I asked about some kind of guarantee and he said he didn't offer a guarantee. I was under the impression that most guides offered a guarantee (next trip free or something). He came down $25 and that was it.

The other thing that I thought was really unprofessional was, during the trip, he fished the entire time. He managed to boat several bass. He changed lures on his own rod but I fished with the same darn lure nearly the entire time!!!! Sure, I understand, walleye can be difficult to catch and guides can't control the conditions but I just feel more professionalism was in order. If that is your policy, fine. What about bringing that up 3-4 hours into the trip and and ask whether I would like to target a different species or just going with a half day rate?

I feel like I could have had a much better time just going alone and saving my money. If alone, I could have given up on walleye and gone after species I'm more confident in or at least just thrown in the towel and went home. I hired a guide to give me a head start on learning. I'm now less confident in fishing for walleye than before the trip. I have no idea if he even knew what he was doing or if the small amount of advice was even accurate. I learned nothing (except to be a little careful when choosing a guide). I am furious. He seemed reputable but I feel like I was ripped off.

So, should I be as angry as I am? I know there are a bunch of guides here... what are your policies on a fishless day? Is that pretty standard to not have a guarantee? I just wanted to vent my frustration and open this up for discussion. Thank you for letting me vent.

[duckydoty]

Wow. That is a tough call flyman. I can understand your frustration for sure. I've been guiding in Alaska for 6 years now and I can tell you, a fishless day is my worst nightmare. Alaska is supposed to be the easiest place in the world to fish, where trophy rainbows are just waiting to jump in the boat. Believe it or not, every now and then, a fish is not caught. Happens a little less than once a year up there, but none the less it still happens. On a day like that, if I have not tried every fly and every lure I have in possession, then I don't feel like I've done my job. There are no guarantees but on a fishless day, I hope I have provided a fun and memorable experience along with some education on the species being chased and techniques being used.

Again, sorry you had a bad experience.

[Jerry Rapp]

are you serious? You didn't learn good areas to fish? You wanted to catch walleye, and he kept you fishing for walleye. You are the kind of client that makes me really appreciate guides. They have to put up with folks like you that expect 100% satisfaction. You have a lot to learn about fishing.

[fishinwrench]

I assume that he was on time, you were in his boat and covered by his insurance, and he was friendly and as helpful as he could be?

The guide fishing (and catching a few) had to help your confidence somewhat....at least you knew that some fish were nearby.

Being disappointed that your trip fell on a tough day is justifiable. Raggin' any heavier than you already have on the guide is not.

Can you be sure that you didn't have any bites at all? Consistent walleye success can never be guaranteed.

[Al Agnew]

Yeah, there aren't any guarantees to catch fish no matter how good the guide is, and no client should expect money back if they don't catch any.

However, in my opinion this guide did do some things wrong, and many of them were simple lack of communication, if things went as you said. He should have asked you if you wanted to try for bass or other species. He should have told you why he was fishing himself, IF it was to figure out some things. If it was simply for him to get in some bass fishing while getting paid for it, there is no excuse for that, so he should have explained why he was fishing and what he was trying to accomplish by doing so. He should have been giving you info on why you were fishing in the spots where you were fishing and why the walleye should have been there.

And you should have been asking those questions if he wasn't volunteering the information. Guides can't read the client's mind.

So no, you can't expect money back. However, the fact that he fished all day, apparently without telling you why he was fishing and what he hoped to accomplish for YOU by fishing, would have darned sure kept me from giving him a tip.

[flyman]

Well, Jerry I wanted to open this up for discussion not to be insulted. How would I even know if they are good areas if no fish were caught? I mean, sure I'll try those areas again on my own but as it is right now, no, I didn't get good areas. Not without investigating which I could have done myself. The lake maps gave me more information. I was not rude to him, I didn't reveal his name here and I didn't expect 100% satisfaction. I don't even know if he knows how upset that I am. If it were me in his shoes yesterday and that was my policy, I would have asked the customer what they wanted. I would have also explained as much as I could about, locations, lure selections, etc. as I could so the customer could have taken something home. That was not done. Barely a word was spoken the last couple hours unless I asked a question. I don't expect that just because I'm with a guide they will just be jumping in the boat. You have a lot to learn about being friendly.

[flyman]

Thanks, MFU. Good insight. He was on time, boat insured and very friendly. I'm not questioning his character. He did catch a few bass but that's not what we were after (at least not me). I guess I did learn possible locations I could try later but that's about it. It didn't really give me confidence on the species I want to target.

[ness]

That wasn't very nice, Jerry.

flyman -- You're not guaranteed anything on a guided trip, but from the way you described things, I think you've got a right to be disappointed. I'm not sure what the protocol is in the Ozarks fishing for walleye, bass, whatever, but the half-dozen times I've hired a guide while for trout fishing the guides NEVER fished other than to maybe demonstrate something. Regardless, I think the guide is obligated to do what he can to make your day a good one. Anyone that doesn't see it that way is in the wrong bidness, IMHO.

Duck -- do you fish while you're with clients? What do you do if it's a rotten day?

A guide I've used a few times, and who has become a friend, told me once the only guarantee was that he'd drag my body to the road if needed.

[Mitch f]

Wow, I think as was mentioned it was lack of communication and possibly an unrealistic expectation. Sometimes guides fish other lures to try and find out what they're dialed into that day. But I think there was something else going on here behind the scenes. Remember the guide spends a bunch of gas money on the truck and boat. Gosh, I would hate to be a guide!

[duckydoty]

Ness, I usually do not fish with guests. I'm afraid of catching a fish that could have been Thiers. I do have some long time return guests up in Alaska that demand I fish with them. It is kinda awkward in my opinion and I never want to catch a nice fish with them in the boat. I will on occasion demonstrate a technique or hook a fish occasionally to build confidence but I will pass that hooked fish off to a guest to fight. There is a lot to learn in fighting fish and I think that helps to coach them on when to let them run, when to reel and how to help steer a fish while fighting.

On a slow day, I share lots of stories, talk about patterns, demonstrate techniques and emphasize enjoying the outdoors and taking in everything Alaska has to offer