Shadow Bass From Norfork. Definite Maybe

[Ham]

Goggle eye! I've heard people call them all sort of things. They're in the niangua thick. I caught a bunch down at Capps too. I believe shadow or war mouth are just varieties of same thing. I have caught all colors and patterns in niangua just depended on where I pulled them out of. Like under a log , grass, etc.

Yeah, I know there isn't much difference btw the Rock Bass, Ozark Bass, and Shadow Bass. Not the same as a Warmouth though.

Just something I do.

[Al Agnew]

Goggle eye! I've heard people call them all sort of things. They're in the niangua thick. I caught a bunch down at Capps too. I believe shadow or war mouth are just varieties of same thing. I have caught all colors and patterns in niangua just depended on where I pulled them out of. Like under a log , grass, etc.

Just for your information, up until about 25 years ago the shadow bass, northern rock bass, and Ozark bass were all just considered rock bass (or goggle-eye), all the same species. Then the biologists realized that they were all different, and separated them into different species.

Though they look superficially similar, there are some differences in appearance. For instance, rock bass have 21-25 rows of scales across the breast from pectoral fin to pectoral fin, while shadow bass have 15-18 rows.

You can guess which species you've caught depending upon where you caught it. Northern rock bass are found in the Osage, Gasconade, and Meramec river systems (and although the guidebooks I have don't say so, they are also found in the small Mississippi River tributaries between St. Louis and Cape Girardeau, such as Joachim Creek and Saline Creek). Ozark bass are found ONLY in the upper White River system, including all the streams running into the White River above the mouth of Black River. Anywhere else in the Ozarks and Ouachitas, it's probably a shadow bass. However, there was a lot of indiscriminate stocking of all three species around the Ozarks in the past, and some streams undoubtedly hold hybrids of rock bass and shadow bass, since the two do hybridize. There is no evidence that Ozark bass hybridize with either of the other species, though, and no evidence of them surviving outside their native range in the upper White River system.

The rock bass genus name is Ambloplites (northern rock bass are Ambloplites rupestris, Ozark bass are A. constellatus, shadow bass are A. ariommus, and there is also one more Ambloplites species, the Roanoke bass in Virginia and North Carolina, A. cavifrons). Warmouth are an entirely different species, in a different genus, Lepomis gulosus. Warmouth are closer kin to green sunfish than to rock bass.

[fishinwrench]

Let it be known though, that when dusted, fried, and served with a side of baked beans.... the biologist lost the bet.

[bs1827]

Al, thank you for all of the info! I've always just been under the impression that I had been catching northern rock bass in the Finley and James. I didn't know about the Ozark bass. It's neat to know that they are endemic to the upper White River system. I love catching them on the fly.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Just for your information, up until about 25 years ago the shadow bass, northern rock bass, and Ozark bass were all just considered rock bass (or goggle-eye), all the same species. Then the biologists realized that they were all different, and separated them into different species.

However, there was a lot of indiscriminate stocking of all three species around the Ozarks in the past, and some streams undoubtedly hold hybrids of rock bass and shadow bass, since the two do hybridize. There is no evidence that Ozark bass hybridize with either of the other species, though, and no evidence of them surviving outside their native range in the upper White River system.

I don't think that is correct Al.

If there "was a lot of indiscriminate stocking of all three species" it would have shown in the genetic analysis taken from the hundreds and hundreds of specimens used for the study.

If indeed Ozark bass and Shadow bass were "indiscriminatly stocked" outside of their native range, they most certainly would have survived due to the fact that they inhabit the same type of water and structure.

Also i belive if the stocking would have happend as you say, the native ranges of both would be larger due to the fact they were not known to be different speices unitl late in the last century.

I know you like to quote that one source for the "milkcan stockings" all over the Ozarks but we have both done enough research in reading everything we can get our hands on and personal conversations with those that lived and fished the rivers back then and other than trout, I just can find your source on this as very credible.

[Terrierman]

I don't think that is correct Al.

If there "was a lot of indiscriminate stocking of all three species" it would have shown in the genetic analysis taken from the hundreds and hundreds of specimens used for the study.

If indeed Ozark bass and Shadow bass were "indiscriminatly stocked" outside of their native range, they most certainly would have survived due to the fact that they inhabit the same type of water and structure.

Also i belive if the stocking would have happend as you say, the native ranges of both would be larger due to the fact they were not known to be different speices unitl late in the last century.

I know you like to quote that one source for the "milkcan stockings" all over the Ozarks but we have both done enough research in reading everything we can get our hands on and personal conversations with those that lived and fished the rivers back then and other than trout, I just can find your source on this as very credible.

Fish Fight!! It's on!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Fish Fight!! It's on!

No, no fight.

I love discussing these things with Al.

[fishinwrench]

I can settle this.

Here is proof that they stocked with milk cans.

If it's on the stamp then it has to be true.

By far my favorite BTW. Good job, Al !

[Terrierman]

No, no fight.

I love discussing these things with Al.

Well that's very disheartening.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Well that's very disheartening.

Well just hang tight. I'm sure it'll be a dog pile like always.

Wrench was the first to display a fang. There will be more.