Question About Gigging/spearfishing?

[Feathers and Fins]

I have sat reading this and many threads where Gigging is discussed and something just keeps coming to my mind.

How a small group of people try and often force their wills on the majority of people. This forum is but a small group of people in compare to the vast majority of anglers, there is plenty of lurkers that do not post for many reasons who’s opinions are very different or similar to people here.

What got me to thinking about this was a discussion I had with my best friend while hunting yesterday. It went like this, We use to be able to do a lot growing up in California but small groups influenced the politicians and things we took as a right, privilege or for granted quickly were banned.

Let me give you a bunch of examples; first we use to be able to fish all night on lakes now it’s off the water by sunset. We use to be able to fish any beach and now there are beaches that it is illegal to fish. We use to be able to use multiple rods, now you can use only two but must pay to use a second rod. They use to allow gigging and archery, that is now illegal in most areas. You use to be able to use The National Forrest for free, now you must pay.

I can keep going on with the list of things, people may say this aint California and that is true but they said the same in Colorado and its quickly going the same route as is other states.

We should be proud of what we have in the Ozarks and stop looking at it as this state or that state and look at it as the Region that has a very rich heritage and one that should be protected at all cost. Instead of bitching about a few lawbreakers and changing the laws to stop the practice that is legal perhaps we should focus on holding law enforcement to task and working with the conservation agencies to put an end to the law breakers and protecting our game and heritage.

[Riverwhy]

Great post F&F. I typed up a full page response over the weekend but just deleted rather than post it because you just can't get a point across to special interest groups. I hope with all their faults the MDC can see past the special interest groups and try to keep our waters free from any more restrictions.

[Smalliebigs]

Not arguing with Chief anymore on the gigging thing, just saying in conclusion that if he saw what we see on the Meramec he might have a different outlook. And I've been fishing the Meramec since the late 1960s so my observations are unscientific but first hand.

As for spotted bass, not getting into that one either, except to note that the Bourbeuse, along with Big River, IS pretty much the poster child for the spotted bass invasion. Both rivers have changed from having excellent populations of smallmouth (and zero spotted bass) from source to mouth, into streams where smallmouth are outnumbered by spots in the lower half and matched or nearly so by spotted bass all the way up to near their sources. Just (again) from my own observations, smallmouth numbers have dropped by more than 50% over the best parts of both streams...and that also means that numbers of BIG smallies have dropped by the same percentages, replaced by spotted bass that very seldom reach a length of more than 16 inches.

What he said.......we are actually seeing these things.....Al can explain things way more eloquently. I do know I have reported the illegal gigging and have given the Franklin County office photos and license plate numbers and it seems like they just have their hands tied.......nothing will more than likely be done and the Smallmouth population will continue fall and the spotted bass populations will continue to grow where they weren't before......The MSA is not soliciting your membership, I would assume??? so don't worry about them.....continue to fish and hope for the best. Gig the shiot out of the rivers....they need it there are too many fish in them darn rivers anyway.

[Flysmallie]

Gig the shiot out of the rivers....they need it there are too many fish in them darn rivers anyway.

Like I said before I've never gigged so I'm not the problem. But what I see as the problem is this; If they can't/won't enforce the current laws, what makes any new laws desirable?

I get the new law on the SMAs. Surprises me that they aren't closed to gigging already. If it's good enough for a trout, that we make millions of, it ought to be good enough for any fish.

And everybody sees it. We aren't stupid. But adding more laws does not mean that the problem just goes away. Take a look around at the world. Lots of things are illegal but I don't see any laws resulting in less illegal activity. You need enforcement to make a difference. And if we could get that enforcement then we would see things improve on our rivers, lakes and fields.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'm not arguing Al. But you have to have more than "Because I said so." We can't make rules and regulations based on personal opinion.

We have both spent a great deal of time reading about the Ozarks and the fishing it offered. We both know from reading first hand accounts and records throughout the last 100 years that 20 and 20+ inch smallmouth in the 5 and 6 pound range were always the exception rather than the rule. Fish that have made it to this size are at the ends of their lifespan too. They won't be there year after year after year.

There are a lot of scenario's that play out the life of a fish. I just don't think you can point the finger soley at gigging without solid, factual evidence.

And I would love to come over there and fish. But you won't invite me.

[Chief Grey Bear]

It wasn't an argument it was a simple question. You refuse to answer because you know the answer is nothing.

If you want to bring up how much you support something you need to be prepared to give a reason why.

I wasn't the one that was badgering. You brought it up and I asked. Don't get me confused with chief. We are different people. But yes I do have a problem with people supporting causes with no idea why. But I guess we can't say that you really support them if you aren't a member. And truthfully I'm just looking for a reason to be a member.

You can say spotted bass to me all you want. I freaking love them. Caught a couple this afternoon. But on this side of the state there is nothing wrong with them.

So sorry if you thought I was badgering you. I was just trying to ask a simple question.

That looks like it came straight out of the wrench playbook.

[fishinwrench]

I have a playbook ? Sweet !

Nope, Ronnie and I don't share gigging viewpoints. He's way more democratic than I am.

[Flysmallie]

That looks like it came straight out of the wrench playbook.

It's so fun when you come on here and make an butt out of yourself.

[Chief Grey Bear]

That is your writing not mine.

[Flysmallie]

Oh really I didn't realize that. Glad you are here to point out the obvious. You really should consider politics. You would be perfect for it.