This Is Very Sad

[Mitch f]

My buddy and I were on our way to the Meramec fishing that day. We stopped by McDonalds to get breakfast in Ofallon and I looked up at a tv monitor and saw the first building smoking where the plans hit. I asked a lady next to me what happened and she said a small aircraft accidentally hit the world trade center. We kept going down the road and turned on the radio as they announced a plane had just hit the pentagon....I remember the hair on my arm standing up.

[Al Agnew]

I thought it was for the Rice Guy that beat his wife and lost his football jersey.

I was just thinking about it today, I think it was the last time I have seen gas at $1.45 was that morning. Before the day was over, it jumped to over $2 and there was talk of prosecuting for price gouging. Now its $3.20 and nobody blinks an eye.

I was coming out of the shower getting ready for work when the second tower got hit, watched the plane sail into it on live TV. Called the office and told them I was going to be late. Stopped on the way in an hour later and topped off the tank. By the time I went to lunch, the streets were almost empty and all planes were grounded, the town had an eery silence to it. It was a moment in history I will never forget, but was never really a part of.

I do remember the United States coming together in a sense of patriotism for a while after that. Then that all came to an end in about 2007 and today we are a nation that is divided for the most part.

I think it came to an end long before 2007. I think it was the feeling of togetherness that was the important thing. I would submit that patriotism is always there, and you are wrong to equate true patriotism with bumper stickers and flags flying (or displayed all over the place). 9/11 certainly brought out the flags and bumper stickers as a lot of people felt it important to let everybody know they were patriots, but the real patriots were the same before as after, and we're still here.

What 9/11 did, for a lamentably short period of time, was bring most of us together. But by the time President Bush invaded Iraq, the togetherness was fading fast as lots of people (including lots of patriots) questioned that action, either as it was happening or as the years went by and the situation become more and more muddled and less and less likely to have a good outcome (or ANY kind of outcome). And the politicians and pundits and talk show pinheads all went back to their default positions of demonizing anybody who wasn't on their side, and most of the people went back to caring more about whatever pet issues they'd cared about before.

[Mitch f]

So Al, when did patriotism end in your opinion? What caused it to end? And when do you think we can get it back?

[Tim Smith]

Patriotism isn't dead but it took some major hits in the wake of, and to some degree because of our decision to go into Iraq instead of focusing on Afghanistan.

The day after the attack I was in a grocery store parking lot and a reporter doing random interviews approached me and asked me with some questions.

I remember I told her I thought 9-11 was worse than Pearl Harbor because it was on the mainland and it wasn't a military target that was struck. I also told her war was a terrible thing, but now was a time for war. I also remember saying I hoped we would be wise about who we attacked. I still think all of those things were the right thing to say, and the fact that we didn't live up to the last one has a lot to do with a lot of our problems over the last 13 years.

[jdmidwest]

I thought it was Ironic that 13 years later we are going back to fight the same bunch of terrorists again and hopefully finish what we started and pulled out of too soon. Lucky 13.

I know the support for our troops has improved and lingered longer than the support for the military action. We still remember the first responders that lost their lives there.

[Feathers and Fins]

I tell people when it comes to 911 the same thing, I have it saved on my computer so I can e-mail, post, text whatever. I grew up in a Military Family with a rich history of service I know what it means to be an American! Patriot is a media buzzword but American means so much more. When people figure out the difference in those two words its like a light bulb going off. Anyway here is what I tell people.

September 11th 2001; it is a day those of us alive and old enough will never forget, and certainly never forget where we were or the feelings the event created. Just like Challenger or Reagan being shot and really aging myself The Miracle on Ice there are some life events that cannot be burned out of your soul. Those were events from my life, but my mother and others elder to me reminded me of JFK being assassinated, VE and VJ day and the Passing of FDR and Pearl Harbor. I was lucky enough to know my Great Grandparents who could relate to me about The end of the Great War and the sinking of the Lusitania.

All those events should have proved one thing to the World, how the American Spirit will never cease or fail. After each event I cannot forget that since of National Pride and some of them sorrow but all of them brought out the AMERICAN in America.

It is the solemn and tremendous responsibility for all of us who lived those events to teach the youth about them, they will never experience t hem. I am often reminded of two things when thinking about them, “If we do not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it” and “ To strive, To seek, To find, but never yield”

[fishinwrench]

Inspiring, Fins. But how can anything be learned when so many facts are unknown and/or assumed ?

The recorded and accepted "history" of so many events are often highly inaccurate.

Garbage in/Garbage out.

[Feathers and Fins]

Glen, the learning is passed down and on. I never had heard about the Malmedy massacre until 5 years ago when I met one of the Gentlemen who discovered it and listened to his story. Not only did I learn from it but it will stick with me forever, I also learned more about the Battle of the Bulge from him then any books or movies could teach me.

It is the first hand accounts that will teach you, you do not have to be right there if it affected you, as the events story may affect so many in so many ways but all of them bring a story to life that no book or movie or single teacher could ever do. I will never forget where I was.

I was in a Dr's office when the first plane hit and reports came in, I knew it was bad but thought it was an accident and would watch it on the 5pm news. There were firefighters and Police in the Dr's office ( we were all getting physicals ) I listened to them talk about it and how would they evacuate such a tall building or fight a fire that high most said they had fears of this happening for years.

When plane two hit ALL of us knew we were under attack, the officer and fire fighters jumped up and ran to their cars to head to their respected stationing's, The Nurses were in shock but the old doc who was a vet came in and told his nurses to call the hospitals and get portable gear ready to go wherever its needed if needed for the local area. He told me and the other two patients no appointments the rest the day but he could sure use help getting ready if we were willing he didn't need to ask we weren't leaving.

That evening as things seem to have stopped and at home my emotions finally kicked in of sadness but vengefulness I wanted to kill whoever did this I wanted answers and I think every emotion possible went through me. I can picture that day like I was living it again as I type this.

We like to build monuments and hold ceremonies in remembrance in country and those are all fine, but what we loose as time goes on is the heart felt emotions and the lessons learned from them, each event will fade in to history and the ceremony will shrink year after year. It is the people who lived it we must preserve their feelings for as those are the true teachers.

[fishinwrench]

I hear ya, but even at that it seems a lot of aspects are jumped over, leading to an end conclusion in many minds that is far from reality.

If by "learned" you are referring to the appreciation of life and loved ones then I agree totally.

But if folks think the people of this country "learned" anything about who their true enemies in this world are, who they can trust and who they can't.... I'm just afraid that too many folks may be wrong.

[Feathers and Fins]

You never know who you true friends are or are not its impossible to know Stalin thought Hitler was his ally and look where that went. Cane was Abels brother and that didn't turn out so well. Most people get married with the thought it is for life yet look at the divorce rate. The only one you can ever 100% trust is yourself.

Absolute power is absolute corruption and Money is a major player in both Power and Corruption. People come and go out of your life and Nations make friends then war with each other. Heck we were at war with England in 1812 and now we are their friends. We dropped Nuclear bombs on Japan not even a century ago and now we are friends. We were allies with Germany but we were spying on their Leader just recently.

I don't trust our politicians one bit, they and most American have no stomach for doing what is needed when it comes to war. In war your goal should be a singular objective and that is simple Total Complete Domination and Destruction of the enemy and its ability to make war or threaten you!

We have not Gone to war since WW2 with that objective and because of it the blood of our soldiers was wasted in vane. You want to end the threat of terrorism your dreaming, you want to cripple it though that's possible but remember a crippled bear can still bite and a snakes head cut off can still bite and kill. But you need to have the resolve to do what is needed and that is simple. You go in with everything we have with the simple orders of destroy the enemy at all cost and take no prisoners! If they are in control of a city use a Nuke, if they are in the mountain caves burn them out and seal the entrance so they cant get out basically Genocide protocols toward them.

They ARE NOT a nation or an Army that is fighting with honor, they are common criminals mass murders and will only continue their acts on innocent people and the only way to stop them is to kill them all! You do capture one waterboard him and then remember Red is positive Black is negative and make sure he is nice and wet. I have no problem doing whatever is needed to protect our nation and when your done with him a Bullet to the head is cheaper than a meal at Gitmo. These are not servicemen of another nation entitled to any protection!