Which Watershed

[Al Agnew]

Whoa up there partner. That is along the same lines of what I have been saying to you guy's over the last few years during the gigger bashing and it was vehemently dismissed.

I don't think I've ever dismissed it. My point of view is that the LEGAL harvest plus the legal mortality of fish released is bad enough as far as reducing the numbers of big fish, but when you add the ILLEGAL gigging it's really piling on. We can't do anything about the legal mortality until regulations change, but we can, if we have the will, do something about the illegal gigging that removes big fish that "shouldn't" be removed.

[trythisonemv]

On the niangua there are tons of floaters and over the years we've seen the population ebb and flow on big smallies. Some years more drunk floaters which seems to equal less fishing pressure and other years more fishing floats. We never have had trouble with numbers but size seem to coincide with the years of less fisherman. What watershed is niangua?

[fishinwrench]

I see bass (LM and SM) as basically Homebody's, and each hole/stretch is its own system. You can't really judge or categorize a complete river since upper/middle/lower are always so different. Every time you cross a riffle or round a bend you are fishing a new body of water.

[Greasy B]

Every time you cross a riffle or round a bend you are fishing a new body of water.

That's the best part.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I don't think I've ever dismissed it. My point of view is that the LEGAL harvest plus the legal mortality of fish released is bad enough as far as reducing the numbers of big fish, but when you add the ILLEGAL gigging it's really piling on. We can't do anything about the legal mortality until regulations change, but we can, if we have the will, do something about the illegal gigging that removes big fish that "shouldn't" be removed.

Now if you think giggers are your biggest threat to the smallmouth, you are a bigger fool than you make yourself out to be. Legal and illegal harvest of smallmouth by rod and reel fisherman by far out weighs what illegal giggers are doing. But there is never a peep about that.

This post above was not directed to Al.

I hate getting sucked into this argument again, but here goes...the huge difference between illegal gigging and illegal hook and line poaching of game fish is that gigging selects for the biggest fish. Does it harm overall numbers? Nope. But it harms the population structure, by depressing the numbers of the largest fish. Do illegal giggers kill all the big smallmouth (and walleye and largemouth)? Of course not, but they can and do kill a significant percentage of them. We've seen it, how as the winter goes along the big fish simply disappear out of some of the best wintering pools, and how so many of those we catch even early on in the winter season have fresh gig wounds.

Hook and line poaching will never have the same impact on the biggest fish. The nimrod who keeps more than the limit of 12-14 inchers because that's what's easy to catch, or the pinhead who keeps undersized fish, will never bother the big ones which are much more difficult to catch. I get mad at the poachers more because they are doing something they know is illegal more so than that they are harming the population any more that the legal meat fishermen who continually pound the streams.

The knowledgeable angler can still catch some, but not nearly as many. And illegal gigging is not the only reason why, but it's a big reason.

Here's what it its: it's the knowledge that, with the wrong attitude and the right skills, a gigger can do significant damage to the bass population, at least within limited areas. It's the knowledge that some of those fish that have been in the river for 4, 5, 6 years and are tough to catch by traditional methods by this point can be taken out of the river in relatively wholesale fashion without even having to be fooled. Just because every gigger in the Ozarks isn't doing this (and I'll be the first to admit it's almost certainly a minority) and because there are still smallmouth in the river doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

Poaching is poaching no matter the method. Do you have absolute evidence that it was giggers and that it wasn't some rod and reelers pick your holes? Unless you were watching the giggers, I don't know how you could be posititive. Not saying it can't happen, or may not occasionaly happen, but to lay all the blame at giggers is without fact.

Over the course of fishing season, there will be numerous fishermen hit any given stretch of water. Since we like assumptions here lets use this one. Lets say on these waters that you say are being stipped of large smallmouth it gets hit by 25 different fishermen over the course of the year. I think we can both agree that is a very conservitive number. Each person only needs to keep one large fish and you have now lost 25 of your large fish you blame soley on the giggers. And I don't know anyone that doesn't catch at least one good fish per trip. If you don't believe that R&R fishing both legal and illegal doesn't have a huge impact on fish, it is because you choose to not accpect it.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I've mentioned this in a couple of other threads but, can't locate them at this time.

[Gavin]

Thinking the Niangua is on the Osage drainage. A big lake separates them though. Its always fished pretty well but it's a rare trip with the Meramec and Gasconade drainages along the way. Never have made it to the James our the streams in Chief's corner of the State. Will get there someday.

[trythisonemv]

Osage would make since!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Thinking the Niangua is on the Osage drainage. A big lake separates them though. Its always fished pretty well but it's a rare trip with the Meramec and Gasconade drainages along the way. Never have made it to the James our the streams in Chief's corner of the State. Will get there someday.

Give me a holler. I'd be honored to show you around.

[Gavin]

Chief you would be my first contact for that area. Have some time off in the near future. Pm sent.