Updated info on new smallmouth special regs areas

[Smalliebigs]

I don't think I will ever understand you...

Veiled threats of the Internet mean nothing. Write a well thought out email to the folks that matter illustrating your opinion on the subject, rather than bluffing people that hold zero sway on an Internet forum.

Andy I don't give a shiot what you or anyone on here thinks about me fishing and keeping fish with in the laws set by the MDC. I think it's funny and ironic that you would call something I said about abiding by the laws set by the MDC as it pertains to keeping fish as a threat, hahahaha. Veiled threats?? because I said I was going to fish and keep fish like the MDC says is the best for the fish populations?? Classic!!!! I have written the MDC and have contacted the field offices of Washington, St. Francis and Franklin counties on many occasions to report game code violations and blatant landowner abuse of the corridor. I take pictures of license plates of guys I have seen gigging bass in the Winter at the risk getting my butt kicked. I have worked on three different StreamTeams on the Lower Meramec by my house and on the Bourb as well as the lower Big Rivers.....donating my time, my canoes and trailers, my SeaArk on the lower Meramec for the last 10 years in a row. My wife and I also donated $500 dollars to the MDC for their Stream Bank Stabilization Project in 2013.

What do you do for Missouri streams Andy???

[evilcatfish]

Simmer down ya'll

[ozark trout fisher]

Andy I don't give a shiot what you or anyone on here thinks about me fishing and keeping fish with in the laws set by the MDC. I think it's funny and ironic that you would call something I said about abiding by the laws set by the MDC as it pertains to keeping fish as a threat, hahahaha. Veiled threats?? because I said I was going to fish and keep fish like the MDC says is the best for the fish populations?? Classic!!!! I have written the MDC and have contacted the field offices of Washington, St. Francis and Franklin counties on many occasions to report game code violations and blatant landowner abuse of the corridor. I take pictures of license plates of guys I have seen gigging bass in the Winter at the risk getting my butt kicked. I have worked on three different StreamTeams on the Lower Meramec by my house and on the Bourb as well as the lower Big Rivers.....donating my time, my canoes and trailers, my SeaArk on the lower Meramec for the last 10 years in a row. My wife and I also donated $500 dollars to the MDC for their Stream Bank Stabilization Project in 2013.

What do you do for Missouri streams Andy???

There's being passionate about a fishery that you love, and getting angry about that, and there's burning bridges with everyone that should theoretically be on your side, and threatening to harm the thing that you love for....reasons... Why you are choosing the latter strategy is something that baffles me, but whatever. None of my business.

What you shouldn't assume is that you have a lock on the conversation because you have done a lot of good things for the watershed. You don't know what anyone else here does, day in and day out, in the realm of conservation, and if you did, you probably would be less inclined to hold everything you've done over the head of anyone who disagrees with you. There are a whole lot of us out there sweating and giving up a whole lot in the hope of conserving the things that we love. It's something that every true sportsmen (by my definition) feels to be a duty. It does not give us the right to shut everyone else up.

[joeD]

We ARE talking in a vacuum.

Anyway, Pittsburgh Pirates are in town. We're over 30 games above 500, yet, could be only a few games up on the Bucs after Thursday. Fun fun fun. Going Wednesday. Wednesday with Wacha.

[MOsmallies]

Be prepared for a rain delay Joe... Wacha is a walking/talking rain delay waiting to happen

[Alex Heitman]

I'm going tonight and I'm hoping Carlos is dealing it to the Bucs. I saw the Cards play the Bucs 2 years ago in the NLDS clincher and it was one of the best games I've been to, besides the NLDS last year when we beat Kershaw.

[Al Agnew]

Yep, and I'd hate to see a legitimate conservation interest group go that route even if somehow I thought it would work. Using legislative pressure to bully what is supposed to be a non-political conservation department is a really dangerous road. We've seen people take (or try to take that path) but it's mostly been to deregulate game farms, or, as you mentioned, noodle catfish. I wouldn't say that I'd like to model my tactics after people pursuing those causes.

The worst part is by using those tactics you surrender the moral high ground. And the next time some greasy politician decides that Tyson or game farms or catfish noodling is more important than the science-based work at the MDC, well, you kind of lost the ability to say anything.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. I was certainly not advocating that route, just pointing out that others have, with mixed success. MDC, unfortunately, is not TOTALLY independent of politics.

Smalliebigs is passionate about all this stuff, and I would bet he's not keeping any smallmouth. I think he's making a point that, if ALL of us were governed by the regulations only, and not by our own personal ethics whatever they may be, the fishing would be a lot worse than it is now. Supposedly the regs take into account the percentage of people that catch and release as well as the percentage that catch and keep legally, and theoretically if more of us kept our catch up to the legal limit, the regs would have to be tightened. Problem is that it's an inexact science when you're trying to figure out how many are catch and keep, and it changes.

I've seen a lot more people keeping fish since the economy took its plunge. We also saw more people fishing Courtois Creek when those reward tags were being advertised, and I suspect that a certain percentage of them were catch and keep anglers. And...it just seems that fishing the Ozark streams is getting more and more popular, and anglers are getting better at it. The pressure is growing, but the regs haven't changed except in the special management areas. I guarantee you that there are a LOT more GOOD anglers fishing the streams now than what were fishing them back when the 6 fish 12 inch limit first took effect. A lot more anglers, a lot better equipment, and a lot more knowledge. Tournament guys routinely catch, and supposedly release, a lot of fish and some of very nice size. Those of us who don't fish tournaments can be pretty effective, too. So there is no reason to think that a good percentage of those who catch and keep are better anglers with better equipment than they once had.

Give me about three or four trips to any given stretch of smaller stream, maybe with one companion along, and both of us keeping legal limits and trying to cull to make up the biggest legal limit possible, and not overly worrying about how we treat the fish on the stringer before we switch them out for a bigger one, and I guarantee you you'd see a difference in the numbers of bigger fish in that stream stretch. It simply doesn't take much pressure by GOOD catch and keep anglers to have a serious impact. Even if only 10% of the anglers fishing Courtois Creek, for instance, are keeping fish, if most of those guys are good, they'll make a difference.

[SpoonDog]

Ah, there's a grain of truth to what Joe said. Plenty of people have gone around MDC in the past and gotten their legislators to threaten to pass laws giving them the kind of game and fish management they prefer...remember the big commotion about hand fishing for catfish? Fortunately, MDC is still in a position where they can resist that kind of pressure, and they usually do. But MDC commissioners ARE political animals to some extent, having been appointed by various governors, and they come with their own biases. If one of them cares enough about an issue, THEY can pressure the others on the commission, and therefore the department, to go against the science.

It isn't even restricted to legislative influence, money (and time) talk. One of the reasons groups like Ducks Unlimited, Wild Turkey Federation and the big buck clubs have been so effective at implementing changes is they not only have a major, vocal constituency- they're flush with cash. Even TU has been able to help MDC with land acquisition and in-stream habitat improvements. And I'd be genuinely surprised to learn the brushpiles and rocks in Table Rock and upper Taney have nothing to do with Johnny Morris dumping tons of cash on MDC's lawn in Jeff City. Squeaky wheels get grease. Squeaky wheels with money get results.

Smallmouth anglers pay for licenses and smallmouth anglers pay their share of a 1/8th cent conservation tax; we're buying in while everyone else is anteing (anteying?) up. For better or for worse we live in a region where the private sector is lauded as the epitome of smart management. That means the people with the cash get to set the agenda. For the record I am NOT a fan of this model- but it's been awfully effective for other special interests. Maybe Missouri smallmouth anglers could use a daddy Warbucks type.

[joeD]

Morals schmorals. Not too long ago, a huge subset of our citizens were morally opposed to letting women vote or African Americans go to school with our children. Morality is fluid and generally self serving.

Aww, whatever. I was making a semi cynical point of the nature of politics. I would never advocate the MSA or other legitimate organization be that underhanded.

We'd get someone else to do it.

[drew03cmc]

Morals schmorals. Not too long ago, a huge subset of our citizens were morally opposed to letting women vote or African Americans go to school with our children. Morality is fluid and generally self serving.

Aww, whatever. I was making a semi cynical point of the nature of politics. I would never advocate the MSA or other legitimate organization be that underhanded.

We'd get someone else to do it.

Joe, not to pick nits here, but I wasn't alive, so that's a long time ago...

if someone keeps legal fish, we can't say anything about it, but when they are poaching or subverting the laws, we should call Operation Game Thief and hopefully get their hind ends busted. I, for one, will NEVER keep a smallmouth.