MDC Public Comment Meetings - Part 2

[Chief Grey Bear]

I have a idea.   Let's try to make our beloved ozark streams a destination for anglers across the nation for trophy smallmouth.  The fact is, if I decided I wanted to eat smallmouth- I could clean the meramec out in a 20 mile area from my house  5 fish a day. I fish 4 days a week   Do the math   You seem very smart. Figure it out. Electro fishing is not a good way to see what's in the water.  Wait till it's cold and the water is Crystal clear. Then go gig   I enjoy gigging but I think if they would make the penalty for stabbing whatever you see it would change the equation 

You are aware fish hide in places you can't see but electricity does?

You are aware that they already have regulations in place for gigging Game fish?

You are aware that they do in fact catch gingers that have violated those said regulations?

You are aware that it's insane to expect them to catch everone of them?

[MOPanfisher]

Being aware of and being able to prove it to the satisfaction of a prosecuting attorney are not the same thing.  Fishing pressure alone is not going to clean out 20 miles of river.  Every stream has its own set of issues and there is not enough time or $ available to 100% study them and make special regs for each one.  Likewise MDC  trying to come up with a plan NOT the end all be all solution.  If it is a step in the right direction support it and be ready to support the next step in a few years if this appears to be going well.

[Hog Wally]

I'm saying, make it hurt.  Make it hurt bad.   I don't have a dog in the race, but when it costs a lot of money the word gets out fast.  I don't want to show all my cards but I take a lot of pictures and send all to my local agent that I trust and I know that he follows up and does his job but we are talking about peanuts to these guys.  I live on the river. I can see the river right now.  If you make the fine unsurmountable it will make a difference.  Money matters, even to idiots.  I'm a very reasonable man and I know im right.  Don't bother arguing  

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'm saying, make it hurt.  Make it hurt bad.   I don't have a dog in the race, but when it costs a lot of money the word gets out fast.  I don't want to show all my cards but I take a lot of pictures and send all to my local agent that I trust and I know that he follows up and does his job but we are talking about peanuts to these guys.  I live on the river. I can see the river right now.  If you make the fine unsurmountable it will make a difference.  Money matters, even to idiots.  I'm a very reasonable man and I know im right.  Don't bother arguing  

The MDC does not set the fines. 

They don't even get the money. 

 

[Hog Wally]

I'm sure Phil will shut this down anyway because of the animosity but, seriously chief grey beard. Do you think that anyone would think that Mdc gets the money from fines? Like they personally get the money ? Or that the Mdc gets the money ?  Anyone with a ounce of brains knows where the money goes.  If that's where this topic has gone to then it's probably time anyway. Shut it down Phil.  It's over. This dog won't get up and we keep beating it.  

[SpoonDog]

Be condescending if you want, The  MDC is fully aware of the times, locations, etc. Nothing was done. 

It was a lil tongue-in-cheek Mitch, and I'm sorry if you took offense- but you guys act as though MDC's reading tea leaves when most of what they're doing is pretty basic.  Whether it's baseball stats or smallmouth bass stats the mathematics are the same, which is one of the reasons I have a tough time when you guys insist MDC's numbers are junk.

All kidding a side that would be a good way to quantify something like illegal gigging.  Browising through the last five pages of the forum I found photos of 89 ungigged fish and 21 of fish that looked giged- for a proportion of like...24%.  Seems like a lot, but seventeen of those were from one bust on Black River.  Black River also had some of the highest mortality rates in the MDC study, it looks like.  Instead of insisting MDC studies are categorically bad and must be redone ad nauseum, we can use the information we have to make informed recommendations.  Something like "Hey!  We know there's illegal gigging going on in Black River and we know there's high mortality rates.  Maybe the high mortality rates are due to underreporting of tagged fish or illegal gigging.  This is something we should look into further/this is an area which needs more enforcement."  That is a conclusion, based on facts, MDC can do something with.  Things like the Google Earth job I half-heartedly mentioned would help, too- if only because it produces a paper trail which documents whether MDC is following up on reports or not.

Hog- I  agree gigging should receive more attention and enforcement, but I gotta disagree that electrofishing gear isn't effective. There's a reason folks strip old crank telephones and take them down to the creek. 

 

 

[Flysmallie]

Hell Hog it was over before it ever started. Just like all the other times it's been discussed, nothing will change. Ever. 

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'm sure Phil will shut this down anyway because of the animosity but, seriously chief grey beard. Do you think that anyone would think that Mdc gets the money from fines? Like they personally get the money ? Or that the Mdc gets the money ?  Anyone with a ounce of brains knows where the money goes.  If that's where this topic has gone to then it's probably time anyway. Shut it down Phil.  It's over. This dog won't get up and we keep beating it.  

I don't think anyone is mad but you. 

Nobody has made this discussion personal but you. 

But you have peaked my curiosity, without any form of help, tell us where the money goes. 

[Mitch f]

It was a lil tongue-in-cheek Mitch, and I'm sorry if you took offense- but you guys act as though MDC's reading tea leaves when most of what they're doing is pretty basic.  Whether it's baseball stats or smallmouth bass stats the mathematics are the same, which is one of the reasons I have a tough time when you guys insist MDC's numbers are junk.

All kidding a side that would be a good way to quantify something like illegal gigging.  Browising through the last five pages of the forum I found photos of 89 ungigged fish and 21 of fish that looked giged- for a proportion of like...24%.  Seems like a lot, but seventeen of those were from one bust on Black River.  Black River also had some of the highest mortality rates in the MDC study, it looks like.  Instead of insisting MDC studies are categorically bad and must be redone ad nauseum, we can use the information we have to make informed recommendations.  Something like "Hey!  We know there's illegal gigging going on in Black River and we know there's high mortality rates.  Maybe the high mortality rates are due to underreporting of tagged fish or illegal gigging.  This is something we should look into further/this is an area which needs more enforcement."  That is a conclusion, based on facts, MDC can do something with.  Things like the Google Earth job I half-heartedly mentioned would help, too- if only because it produces a paper trail which documents whether MDC is following up on reports or not.

Hog- I  agree gigging should receive more attention and enforcement, but I gotta disagree that electrofishing gear isn't effective. There's a reason folks strip old crank telephones and take them down to the creek. 

 

 

I don't know what Black river bust you're referring to? I put up 14 myself, and those fish were the lucky ones. The problem is , that after all the photos and information was turned in, we were finally told the truth. Which was writing citations for illegal gigging was way down the priority list. Ronnie is right, nothing will change on this front until they put more value in stream bass.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I don't know what Black river bust you're referring to? I put up 14 myself, and those fish were the lucky ones. The problem is , that after all the photos and information was turned in, we were finally told the truth. Which was writing citations for illegal gigging was way down the priority list. Ronnie is right, nothing will change on this front until they put more value in stream bass.

And it will remain low on the list until it is shown that gigging is decreasing the stream population to a point that it is harming the resource. 

And you are a hell of a long ways from that. 

Stream populations are very healthy. So why waste your limited resources on a problem you don't have?