What Factors influence the Smallmouth population

[Hog Wally]

14 minutes ago, Dan Kreher said:

I've not seen anyone reply yet with regards to the MDC regulations with respect to spotted bass in the Meramec basin.

Regs for spotted bass in the Meramec, Big, Bourbeuse, Huzzah, Courtois and Mineral Fork creeks and there tributaries include:

No Minimum Length Limit

A daily/possession limit of 12 black bass no more than 6 of which may be a combination of largemouth and smallmouth bass -- so you could keep up to 12 spotted bass if you did not keep any largemouth or smallmouth

In Smallmouth Bass Special Management Areas (essentially all of Big River, Meramec from Hwy 8 bridge to Birds Nest, Mineral Fork from Hwy F to Big River) within the Meramec Basin -- the smallmouth regs are a 15" MLL and 1 SMB daily/possession limit

Closed Season (C&R only) on all black bass from March 1 to Friday before 4th Saturday in May

These liberalized MLL and creel limit regs are spotted bass were adopted by the MDC around 2000 (I cannot recall the specific year enacted) following significant input from anglers, members of the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance including Mr. Al Agnew.

I have not seen much actual data from the MDC on how many spotted bass are actually being kept by anglers since the reg change. However, it appears that the change has done little to curb their numbers within the majority of the Meramec Basin having suitable spot habitat as discussed throughout this thread.  

Good input from the group on the spotted bass issue -- particularly enjoyed reading Al's history lesson. 

 

Very good points !  I would suggest a all year season open on spots no length limit and keep as many as you want.  When the spots are really biting you can fill the boat with the little boogers.  I have personally kept 57 from a one mile stretch around my ramp this year so far.  I am doing my own experiment to see if I can eradicate them from a couple holes   After my first gigging expedition I realized there is still some in my two holes but they are all larger fish.  12 to 15" fish.  Hopefully they will fall to the hidef craw soon    Listen folks, I have found that these spotted bass are some of the finest table fare swimming in the river.  And your doing a good deed at the same time    Get em ! Get em all !

[Al Agnew]

Yep, PLEASE keep every one you catch up to the limit within the Meramec river system!  The regs on virtually all of Big River are a big step in the right direction, but if people don't keep the spots the regs are doomed to fail.  (And if there isn't better enforcement of the 1 fish, 15 inch limit on smallmouth, they are doomed to fail as well, and I know of guys who either don't know or ignore those smallmouth regs.)

I can't believe what Jennifer told Hog Wally.  Before spotted bass invaded the Meramec, the stretch from St. Clair to the mouth of the Bourbeuse was probably the finest big smallmouth water in Missouri, and had plenty of numbers as well.  I fished the river from Steelville to the Bourbeuse a lot during the late 1970s and early 1980s, and there were just as many, if not more, smallmouth from St. Clair to the Bourbeuse as there was anywhere else on the river.  I believe that there are several factors that have caused the decline in smallmouth on the lower portions of the river, but the spotted bass invasion is far and away the BIGGEST factor.  Just look at the river between Sand Ford and the Bourbeuse, and you'll a LOT of excellent smallmouth habitat, plenty of habitat to produce big numbers and big fish.  But the numbers just aren't there like they were pre-spotted bass.

Tjm, according to one MDC biologist I talked to years ago who DID know what he was talking about (at least it seemed so to me), gradient might be the deciding factor in whether a stream section is hospitable to spotted bass or not.  He said they did best in sections with less than 3.5 feet per mile of gradient.  But they also don't like really cool water in the summer, nor do they seem to do well in very clear water.  So the faster, cooler, and clearer the water, the worse they do.  Pflieger said that they don't seem to hybridize with smallmouth in the streams where both are native, but do hybridize readily in streams where the spots are invading.

The situation, even in streams where both are native, varies considerably.  Many streams, like the Current and Eleven Point, are all smallmouth until pretty far downstream, where the water is slower, murkier, and warmer, and then spotted bass gradually become more numerous and smallmouth less so.  Others, like Castor River, are very sharply divided between spotted bass water and smallmouth water.  Above Highway 34 on Castor, it's pretty much all smallmouth, but in just a couple miles below Highway 34, the spots almost completely take over.  This may have a lot to do with the way the habitat changes...it does get slower and slightly murky below Highway 34, but still looks like smallmouth water.

And then there's the St. Francis River, where spots and smallmouth seem to coexist in nearly equal numbers over much of the river, although in my experience, the spotted bass have actually declined a little over the years and the smallmouth have gotten a bit more numerous.  Chief might chime in, but as I understand it, the Southwest Missouri streams of the Spring River system seem to have much the same situation.

And then there are the streams that are affected by dams.  Spotted bass are definitely a LOT more numerous in the James River and Bryant Creek than they were before Table Rock and Norfork Dam were constructed.  Seems the lakes provided a great breeding ground for spotted bass, and then they moved up into the streams above them.  And Black River BELOW Clearwater Dam has a lot more spotted bass and fewer smallmouth than it did before the dam was built, but that's because the water comes off the top of Clearwater Lake and made the river downstream a lot warmer and murkier in the summer than it was previously, changing it to perfect spotted bass habitat.

[MoCarp]

I have fished the spring river system for years and its interesting as smallmouths can be anywhere but seem to be concentrated in certain areas....I remember once if you fished the old rebel frog in gold, you'd catch spots...rebel craws smallies.....wierd ........you can catch some monster SMB in spring and shoal....but spots are numerous....I'd love to have been on a shock study to see whats there...but slab rock areas with good current = SMB....upper parts of shoal creeks are very good SMB areas...not as easy to wade fish...one reason I loved fishing out of a float tube..can't cover water as well but gives you stealth for big fish....since yaks got popular more pressure than in the past

never caught a spot/smb hybrid.....there are a couple of small creeks that are clear in the spring river drainage that are dominated by smb never caught a spot..couple of LMB......I might need to PM chief to see if he's hit that one

[tjm]

1 hour ago, Al Agnew said:

  Seems the lakes provided a great breeding ground for spotted bass, and then they moved up into the streams above them. 

One of the FWS studies theorizes that because spots nest in deep water in reservoirs that they are less affected by spring draw down than other black bass.

[Gavin]

I can't verify the validity of the data, Jim provided, just popped it into excel and ran a few metrics. Fish sampled per hour was really low on the 2015 Survey v the two older surveys. Lousy net man, boat driver, & location can really affect that. The samples are what they are. Samples say more numbers around 19. Probably true if you want to catch a fish. Lots of dinks up there. They manage for 12" mostly. Meramec SMBSMA is way too high up, thinking Campbell to the confluence with the Mississippi would be better. No limit on spots or hybrids.

[Gavin]

TJM, we are talking river bass not ditch fish.

[tjm]

30 minutes ago, Gavin said:

not ditch fish.

????

[Jim Spriggs]

5 hours ago, Gavin said:

I can't verify the validity of the data, Jim provided, just popped it into excel and ran a few metrics. Fish sampled per hour was really low on the 2015 Survey v the two older surveys. Lousy net man, boat driver, & location can really affect that. The samples are what they are. Samples say more numbers around 19. Probably true if you want to catch a fish. Lots of dinks up there. They manage for 12" mostly. Meramec SMBSMA is way too high up, thinking Campbell to the confluence with the Mississippi would be better. No limit on spots or hybrids.

When Jen sent me the 2015 data, she said the following about lower catch rates in 2015: “You’ll notice the catch rates appear to have dropped, but we implemented a standardized sampling strategy that accounts for that change more so than reflecting a real change in the smallmouth population.“

[Jim Spriggs]

I knew Spots competed with Smallmouth, but I didn’t realize the seriousness of the problem until now.  In fact, I haven’t been keeping Spots, but I will now.

How can we, or perhaps  MDC, educate anglers who care about Smallmouth to keep Spotted bass?  An article in the MDC magazine?  Signs at boat ramps?  Occasional emails or mailers from MDC to all fishing license holders?    

I suspect MDC would be reticent to send out such a request, so I wonder if MDC would give a group, such as the MO Smallmouth Alliance, the email list for license holders.  They could email anglers with a note about this issue.

How about an online tally of the number of Spots harvested from each section of the river? Every time someone goes fishing, they count the number of Spots they keep, and they add that number to the Spot count for that section of the river.  We can divide the river by the water between boat ramps (e.g, between Sand Ford and Red Horse).  We can set a goal for the number of Spots taken from the river, and we get people interested in helping to achieve that number.  Run it like a fund-raising campaign.   

Maybe we keep count of who keeps the most, and they get a prize, or just the glory of being the Spot King.

Maybe the MO Smallmouth Alliance would sponsor it?

Other ideas?  

Assuming most Smallmouth anglers began keeping Spotted bass, how long would it take to make a difference for the Smallies?

[Hog Wally]

30 minutes ago, Jim Spriggs said:

I knew Spots competed with Smallmouth, but I didn’t realize the seriousness of the problem until now.  In fact, I haven’t been keeping Spots, but I will now.

How can we, or perhaps  MDC, educate anglers who care about Smallmouth to keep Spotted bass?  An article in the MDC magazine?  Signs at boat ramps?  Occasional emails or mailers from MDC to all fishing license holders?    

I suspect MDC would be reticent to send out such a request, so I wonder if MDC would give a group, such as the MO Smallmouth Alliance, the email list for license holders.  They could email anglers with a note about this issue.

How about an online tally of the number of Spots harvested from each section of the river? Every time someone goes fishing, they count the number of Spots they keep, and they add that number to the Spot count for that section of the river.  We can divide the river by the water between boat ramps (e.g, between Sand Ford and Red Horse).  We can set a goal for the number of Spots taken from the river, and we get people interested in helping to achieve that number.  Run it like a fund-raising campaign.   

Maybe we keep count of who keeps the most, and they get a prize, or just the glory of being the Spot King.

Maybe the MO Smallmouth Alliance would sponsor it?

Other ideas?  

Assuming most Smallmouth anglers began keeping Spotted bass, how long would it take to make a difference for the Smallies?

Wow.  This guy is going places.   Good ideas