Defunding our police..

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, SpoonDog said:

SURELY there's a way of holding suspects that doesn't wind up killing them.  If not, we need to rethink policing.

Handcuff them to a telephone pole, then go have coffee and a donut.   By the time they get back to them the subject will be all calmed down and ready to cooperate.  If not, then tell them you'll be back to check on them again after lunch.

Why are they always in a big hurry to get them into jail right away?   People that are completely out of control just need a little time to collect themselves.  No big deal.

[Mitch f]

2 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

Mitch, you know George Floyd wasn't burning anything down.  And you know Breonna Taylor was asleep in her bed when police knocked down the door and killed her. I'm sure you've seen the videos of police shooting credentialed journalists with pepper bullets.  Arresting credentialed journalists, in defiance of the Constitution they swore to uphold and you obviously value.

You know peaceful protestors are still being shot and killed and beaten and maced and gassed, despite the fact they're peaceful protestors.  I don't think anyone should be defending or rationalizing that decision, police, civilian, or otherwise.  Do you?

 

These specific examples you give are cherry picked. Many studies, even from Harvard show zero police bias toward blacks. 

[SpoonDog]

9 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

These specific examples you give are cherry picked. Many studies, even from Harvard show zero police bias toward blacks. 

More or less cherry picked than castigating all protestors as looters and thugs burning down their own businesses?   I'd like to learn more about your sudden interest in objectivity.

Even if true, I'm not reassured by the idea cops murder as many innocent white folks as they do innocent black folks. I don't think the police should murder ANY innocent people.

We've established you're really interested in the Constitution, so you know about due process.  We can both agree police shouldn't be killing any innocent people. 

[Mitch f]

9 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

More or less cherry picked than castigating all protestors as looters and thugs burning down their own businesses?   I'd like to learn more about your sudden interest in objectivity.

Even if true, I'm not reassured by the idea cops murder as many innocent white folks as they do innocent black folks. I don't think the police should murder ANY innocent people.

We've established you're really interested in the Constitution, so you know about due process.  We can both agree police shouldn't be killing any innocent people. 

So the end result is the city is burned to a crisp, tens of millions of dollars in property  damage and I’m putting all protesters in the same category. Let’s get real. Antifa backed  all these guys. Delivering stacks of bricks, instigating, etc. So less than one percent of cops are bad according to the studies. What percentage of protesters are bad? 

[tjm]

2 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

we need to rethink policing.

 

53 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

Why are they always in a big hurry to get them into jail right away?

If police sent out a detective  team the next day it would accomplish the apprehension and jailing of the criminals without the heat of armed intervention and if the suspect is innocent or guilty can be determined eventually by the courts. 911 dispatch should be reserved for fire and rescue. Dispatching an armed force into a scene where the act may or may not turn out criminal is setting the stage for police escalation.  Rethinking a paramilitary police force might be a desirable direction. Currently it seems every patrol believes it is a SWAT team.  Disarming patrols might be better long term than defunding them.

[fishinwrench]

17 minutes ago, SpoonDog said:

Even if true, I'm not reassured by the idea cops murder as many innocent white folks as they do innocent black folks.

I think you have to break that down into the percentage of each, that cops come into contact with.   

I seriously doubt that a cop is more likely to kill a black person than he/she is a white person, given that all other things related to the contact are the same.

A white guy with his pants sagging down to the top of his crank, screaming "Oh heyll naw, you honky mufukkas ain't about hancuffin ME!   And ya best gimme back dat blunt befo it goes out cuz I ain't about looking fo my Bic"......

....is just as likely to get capped.

[Terrierman]

I don't think I've ever met an actual domestic terrorist.  If I have I didn't know it because he must have left his badge or armband or whatever they wear at home.

[Terrierman]

8 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

So the end result is the city is burned to a crisp, tens of millions of dollars in property  damage and I’m putting all protesters in the same category. Let’s get real. Antifa backed  all these guys. Delivering stacks of bricks, instigating, etc. So less than one percent of cops are bad according to the studies. What percentage of protesters are bad? 

Every group conforms to a bell curve.

[Mitch f]

1 minute ago, Terrierman said:

Every group conforms to a bell curve.

Wrong

[SpoonDog]

2 hours ago, nomolites said:

I don’t excuse the cop’s behavior in that interaction - he should answer in court in addition to the already levied penalties.  I will add, however, I was taught as a young child that fighting would not turn out well - especially with LEOs.  It’s called respect.  I also believe in taking personal responsibility and not making excuses.   I have been arrested several times and not once was it the LEOs fault.  Not once did I fight, as I would have my day in court.    Cops did me a favor by calling me on my BS.  I believe if everyone behaved accordingly there would be no events like this.

Mike

 

You and I have different experiences with police than black folks do.  George Floyd wasn't fighting, Breonna Taylor wasn't fighting, they both died.  Neither of them get their day in court.  If sleeping in your own bed is what gets you killed..I don't know what level of respect you need to display to prevent that. 

 

Do you?