USACE Dock Issues

[TableRockBoater]

Anyone else having problems with the Corps over docks?

[Champ188]

Only problem I have with docks is they seem to be building those lifts wider every year, narrowing the space to a nano-sliver where I'm trying pitch a spoon, jig, or shaky head between the lift and the dock itself. Or maybe my eyesight/skill is just declining in my old age. 😁😂 

[TableRockBoater]

23 minutes ago, Champ188 said:

Only problem I have with docks is they seem to be building those lifts wider every year, narrowing the space to a nano-sliver where I'm trying pitch a spoon, jig, or shaky head between the lift and the dock itself. Or maybe my eyesight/skill is just declining in my old age. 😁😂 

Not the issue I had in mind, but, yes, everything docky is getting bigger. Longer and wider slips.  Taller roofs to accommodate those towers every pleasure boats has to have nowadays.  Perfectly good docks are being discarded for newer and bigger.

Gone are the days of the 8 x 16 slips for little aluminum fishing boats, in wooden docks, with a room at one end to store the outboards during the Winter.

Having said that, lift tanks are all about the same size/width, and it's the crossmembers that might be 9, 10, 11 or 12 feet wide.  I know an older dock that has a 9-foot wide slip and an 7-foot wide slip, and it has a lift in the 9 foot one.  I know a dock still on the lake that has a 12 x 16, then two 8 x 16s in the same opening, then two more like that, then a 12 x 16 at the other end.

 

[bobby b.]

How could one NOT have problems/issues with anything Federal government related? 

Although we just renewed our dock permit without incident or some new requirement or changing out light fixtures that were good last time but not acceptable now and need to be changed to what was acceptable two renewals ago.  

What specifically  are your problems with the Corp?

Bobby

[TableRockBoater]

Not just my problems . . . 

Because the new SMP allows new permits for smaller docks, people rebuilding their dock now have a viable market for their old dock.  People doing that do everything they are supposed to do, everything called for in the written instructions.  Then, after the purchaser of the old dock relocates it, and applies for a permit, the Corps tells them they have to have two sets of Stamped Engineered plans to get it permitted. 

The SMP requires that only if the dock is going to be modified, and for new construction.  Also, the instruction sheet the Ranger gives on the site inspection says exactly that, stamped engineered plans are required only if there will be modifications to the dock.

Of course, for liability and professional insurance reasons, an engineer is not going to put their name on something they did not build or that is not going to be built, so, the Corps is asking for something that cannot be done.

Even if an engineer would do plans, that's $600-$1000 for something that the Corps should already have on file, since the docks involved are already on the lake and permitted.

Not only is the Corps requiring something that is not required, they are not telling people upfront that it is required.  You find out at the end, after all the time and money and effort has been put it.

At that point, the person building a new dock, selling their old one, and the person buying the old one, are screwed.

[seabass03]

COE has slowed the process down to a crawl...so many hoops

[TableRockBoater]

It's nothing less than interfering with the free marketplace.

I've been dealing with the Corps for more than 20 years, and this is the first time I've seen them demand something that is not required, and cite sections of the new SMP that do not say what they say they are saying.

There's enough that has to be done when you do everything that's required, so it's very frustrating when you do, and then add something that's not required.

It is totally reasonable to require engineered plans for new construction or modifications, just like the SMP says, but totally unreasonable to require them just to move a dock, especially when that dock is already on the lake, they already have a file on it, they inspected it, and it complies. 

Actually, they inspect it twice, once before it moves, to see if it complies, and again after it moves, to see if it still complies.  For a dock they already have a file on, that should be sufficient.

Plus, once a dock gets moved, if it needs modification, like adding electric, or a swim deck, or whatever, engineered plans are required, which is understandable.  To require them when nothing is being modified is just overkill.

[TableRockBoater]

23 minutes ago, seabass03 said:

COE has slowed the process down to a crawl...so many hoops

To transfer a used dock, get it moved to our approved site, and get the permit, took 9 months.  That's a dock that's already constructed and already in compliance.

[seabass03]

I can believe that....just went through helping change a resort dock to private....took a year plus

Had to provide parking easement and other stuff

Once its done, hopefully its done

[TableRockBoater]

2 minutes ago, seabass03 said:

I can believe that....just went through helping change a resort dock to private....took a year plus

Had to provide parking easement and other stuff

Oh yeah, I've done the easement thing a few times.  Parking and access.  Just a pedestrian easement on one that doesn't require parking.

Also, we've had a repurposed resort dock for 14 years, and love it.