Gasconade Hazelgreen Discharge Rate

[Bob in MO]

I going to be fishing about 12 miles upstream from the Hwy 44 bridge. Does anyone know what a good discharge (cfs) rate range, at Hazelgreen, would be for a comfortable kayak fishing float?

 

[snagged in outlet 3]

37 minutes ago, Bob in MO said:

I going to be fishing about 12 miles upstream from the Hwy 44 bridge. Does anyone know what a good discharge (cfs) rate range, at Hazelgreen, would be for a comfortable kayak fishing float?

 

It’s only running 164 cfs at hazel green.   That’s pretty low.  

[Flysmallie]

37 minutes ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

It’s only running 164 cfs at hazel green.   That’s pretty low.  

Not really. Not for this time of the year. Typically going to be closer to 200 cfs right now. 

[Bob in MO]

So what is a good flow rate where I'm not fight the current and not dragging either?

In other words what would be the Max and Min cfs for a nice fishing float? 

[fishinwrench]

9 minutes ago, Bob in MO said:

So what is a good flow rate where I'm not fight the current and not dragging either?

In other words what would be the Max and Min cfs for a nice fishing float? 

Everybody wants to go by the flow rate (cfs) but that's really only helpful if you're comparing it to another river. 

Once you are familiar with a river the guage height is what you should be checking.   

On the middle Gasconade you are good from .085' to 3'  

At 3.5' you are basically blown out.  

[fshndoug]

Wrench with more good insight.

[snagged in outlet 3]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

Everybody wants to go by the flow rate (cfs) but that's really only helpful if you're comparing it to another river. 

Once you are familiar with a river the guage height is what you should be checking.   

On the middle Gasconade you are good from .085' to 3'  

At 3.5' you are basically blown out.  

1.07' today and dropping nearly .5' every 2 days.  

[Brian Jones]

You might check with Tommy Bench (Gasconade River Guide on FB).  He spends a lot of time up that way. 

[Al Agnew]

On 7/27/2022 at 4:24 PM, fishinwrench said:

Everybody wants to go by the flow rate (cfs) but that's really only helpful if you're comparing it to another river. 

Once you are familiar with a river the guage height is what you should be checking.   

On the middle Gasconade you are good from .085' to 3'  

At 3.5' you are basically blown out.  

I disagree completely.  Flow rate is the same volume of water for every river in the Ozarks, and I don't NEED to be familiar with the river to know exactly what it's doing with a given flow rate.  I KNOW, because I can picture what it looks like in my mind on rivers I AM familiar with, what 100 cfs or 150 cfs looks like in a typical riffle in any stream in the Ozarks.  So I can use some simple, easy to remember rules of thumb, that have always held true (with one exception that I'll get to in a bit) whenever I'm wanting to know how floatable (or fishable or jetboatable) an unfamiliar Ozark river is.

Rule of thumb 1:  you need 100 cfs, an easy number to remember, to float any stream in the Ozarks without doing a lot of dragging, scraping, and maybe some walking.  You might still have to drag a kayak or canoe down a riffle if it's exceptionally wide, or if it has split channels, but you'll still be able to run most riffles.  There is a slight difference depending upon how much river and watershed there is above the gage; for instance, there's a lot of river and watershed above Hazelgreen on the Gasconade, and therefore the river channel will be wider than, say, the upper Jacks Fork, with a short section of river upstream from the Buck Hollow gage.  So 100 cfs will be a little easier floating on the Jacks Fork than on the Gasconade at Hazelgreen.  But not a huge difference.

Rule of thumb 2:  On an unfamiliar river, I want at least 500 cfs to feel like I can jetboat it safely, and even then it can be iffy.  I routinely run one familiar river at 200 cfs, but there is a pucker factor at that flow.

Rule of thumb 3:  Use the median flow, which is always given in cfs.  Median is a good approximation of normal flow for that time of year.  It will tell you whether the river in that section is usually floatable (remembering the 100 cfs rule--if median flow in mid-summer is over 100 cfs, the river is usually floatable throughout the summer).  And in the spring, when median flows are highest, I feel reasonably comfortable with a flow up to 3 times the median; the river will probably still be floatable and fishable.  In midsummer, when median is a lot lower, it can be 4-6 times median and still  possibly be fishable, depending upon how fast it's dropping.

So...to answer the original question using flow in cfs on the gage...Here is what I want to see on the Hazelgreen gage right now.  I note that the river is flowing 145 cfs.  That's a bit above my 100 cfs rule of thumb, so I know the river is floatable without a whole lot of work.  I note that the median, normal flow for right now is 182 cfs, so the river is usually floatable, is a bit lower than normal for this time of year but still should be floatable.  And looking at the graph instead of the table of Daily discharge, I note that the river had a bit of a rise three days ago, was dropping back to normal the last two days, and is now leveling off today, so it should be in pretty good fishing shape; I want to see a leveling in flow and not see the river still dropping rapidly.  I live 100 miles away, and I wouldn't hesitate to drive 100 miles to float it tomorrow just on what I'm seeing on the gage...and I am NOT familiar enough with the river to know what any level in feet signifies.

The only time a gage reading might not be accurate in flow is when there has been a flood and the shape of the river bottom has changed at the gage location.  Then, the flow, which is extrapolated from the level in feet, might not be correct...until some USGS employee has a chance to check the ACTUAL flow and compare it to the table they keep matching flow rate to level in feet.  But then the level in feet won't be correct either when it comes to figuring out how floatable or fishable the river is at that moment.

[fishinwrench]

2 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

I disagree completely.  Flow rate is the same volume of water for every river in the Ozarks, and I don't NEED to be familiar with the river to know exactly what it's doing with a given flow rate.  I KNOW, because I can picture what it looks like in my mind on rivers I AM familiar with, what 100 cfs or 150 cfs looks like in a typical riffle in any stream in the Ozarks

Many streams are perfectly floatable and fishable at much less than 100cfs.  

I didn't think the question was... "At what flow rate will I not have to worry about touching a rock?"

400 cfs on NFOW is way different than 400 cfs on Tavern cr.  But both are pleasantly fishable/floatable at 2' guage heights.    Nobody wants to fish Tavern cr. or the little Niangua at 400 cfs......But the NFOW?  SURE! 

Whatever works for you is fine 👍, I was just sharing my personal "ignorant boat mechanic" method.   

On a river with multiple guage sites the CFS increases as you travel downstream, as does the guage height.  And since they never place guages on a loosing section of a river......I feel that you can accurately feel out what conditions you are going to be faced with at any given time.  As long as you realize that "0" at a guage site is going to be bone dry along any loosing section.   

Water moving underground is still moving...... but you darn sure can't fish it.  Right?  And if you're not familiar with the river there's no guarantee that the water will reappear in the same ditch.  

I'm not even sure how CFS is accurately monitored...... But I know exactly how guage height is monitored, we all learned that in the 3rd grade of elementary school.  So no calculous or algebra tests ever needed to be passed......Which is good, cuz I failed them all. 😉