Natural Born Trout

[ColdWaterFshr]

Over the years, I've caught a more than a few parr-marked wild small fish in the Current and elsewhere.  I think there is some natural reproduction going on, but limited.  Or maybe fry from the hatchery, washed out during a flood? just growing up and appearing natural. 

[tjm]

If fry or fingerlings did escape from  a hatchery, would they most likely travel upstream or downstream? and just as importantly, how far from such a source would we expect to find parr? 

[Ryan Miloshewski]

11 hours ago, tjm said:

So we're saying that Mo. waters are warmer than Ar, Va, etc.?

White River has a minimum flow requirement, don't forget. Not sure about VA waters. But on Taneycomo, for example, in Oct/Nov there are usually extended periods of zero generation where the water is going to get too warm. The WT has to be consistent. I took a reading two Octobers ago below outlet 2 and it was 61 degrees at 1pm with no generation occurring all day. 

[tjm]

I would not have guessed a tail water could get that warm in winter months, even in summer months;  but I have zero knowledge of them other than some fishing below Beaver and it seemed that then at least the water was always cool. I can't remember taking temp readings though. I can see though given that temperature in the fall that rainbow would have an advantage of end of winter cold spells. 

[trythisonemv]

13 hours ago, tjm said:

So we're saying that Mo. waters are warmer than Ar, Va, etc.?

Literally what I said lol maybe some research project should be done to figure out why they dont

[Ik314]

12 hours ago, ColdWaterFshr said:

Over the years, I've caught a more than a few parr-marked wild small fish in the Current and elsewhere.  I think there is some natural reproduction going on, but limited.  Or maybe fry from the hatchery, washed out during a flood? just growing up and appearing natural. 

Rainbows do successfully reproduce  there, browns not so much 

[Phil Lilley]

It would be interesting to get water temps from below BSD and TRD and compare.  Of course, each year is different.  This year our water has stayed much cooler than most years, and we've had some years when our water is very warm in the fall until TR turns and cold temps arrive and cool things down.

As far as flow, the White does have better, consistant flow but they did before minimum flow started and browns spawned successfully.  But the White is a river and has structure ideal for spawning brown, esp just below the dam.  And they spawn later than Taney's browns so the water is cooler.  I fished below the dam one February before the no fishing rule was implimented and there were browns spawning all over the shoals.  If Taney's browns spawned in January and February, we might see some survive.  But we have really only 2 shoals below the dam that has moving water adequate for spawning trout. 

The pondweed in the lake would only help young rainbows if they or when they move out of the creeks and into the lake.

Comparing Taney and the White as far as DO levels - we have an advantage because they inject liquid O2 into the turbines when generating plus hatchery outlets dump in water that's high in DO.  The White has neither.  All they can do is open vents on the turbines that allow air to mix with water as it passes through.

[bfishn]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:53 AM, tjm said:

If fry or fingerlings did escape from  a hatchery, would they most likely travel upstream or downstream? and just as importantly, how far from such a source would we expect to find parr? 

There's a pretty big difference between fry and fingerling hatchery escape survival. The ideal flow rate for swim-up fry is from 1 to 1.5 fpm. That keeps them swimming, but in place. An accident at this stage could basically send thousands of fry down the drain. Survival depends on the velocities and twists and turns on the way. The ones that make it to a calm area near food might live to parr stage. I had some on the farm that did. They found a 20 yard stretch in the rocks at the far upper end just below the falls. No idea what they ate as this was only 20 more yards from the spring cave source.

Drains for fingerling facilities are more survivable, and likely account for most that do survive. To your question, fry would be unable to go upstream in most rivers, while fingerlings might.

 

[tjm]

That is a lot less flow than I would have imagined for the fry, almost stagnant compared to waters where I've taken 3" trout on flies.

[bfishn]

Yeah, it's pretty slow. During setup, I'd run dye to gauge it. If they still have a day on the yolk sac they could end up way downstream and survive if they end up in a good spot. If the sacs gone and they're on feed, they need to find grub immediately.