emergency trout regulations on the white/norfork rivers!

[netboy]

1 hour ago, Quillback said:

That would make sense.  I am going to guess they were worried about pushback from the guides and trout resorts that cater to clients fishing bait.

They could use non-scented soft plastics and fish the same way as they do with shrimp, corn, worms, etc. 

[Phil Lilley]

1 hour ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Hopefully they don’t spread the fungus in Shepherd of the hills to AR😐

That fungus is in all waters. It only affects fish when they’re stressed and/or handled badly. 

[gotmuddy]

35 minutes ago, netboy said:

They could use non-scented soft plastics and fish the same way as they do with shrimp, corn, worms, etc. 

One of the AGFC commissioners owns a trout boat company so doubt they will change that practice.  This will be a huge blow to trout guides though, and I suspect red's landing is going to get much more pressure now.

[netboy]

^^^^^^ I imagine Taneycomo will also see an increase in traffic.

[rps]

1 hour ago, netboy said:

They could use non-scented soft plastics and fish the same way as they do with shrimp, corn, worms, etc. 

Would not be the same, and would not reduce hook damage. However, requiring true circle hooks (not the offset variety) would certainly reduce the gut hook kills. As a brown trout bait fisherman who practices catch and release, I would support that regulation.

[netboy]

1 hour ago, rps said:

Would not be the same, and would not reduce hook damage. However, requiring true circle hooks (not the offset variety) would certainly reduce the gut hook kills. As a brown trout bait fisherman who practices catch and release, I would support that regulation.

If it's going to be catch and release only on the upper river then just implement the current regulations in the catch and release areas. No natural bait, no chumming, barbless hooks only.

[netboy]

15 hours ago, rps said:

Would not be the same, and would not reduce hook damage. However, requiring true circle hooks (not the offset variety) would certainly reduce the gut hook kills. As a brown trout bait fisherman who practices catch and release, I would support that regulation.

If you think bait fishing for browns is a good thing, here are a couple of dead browns I have picked up off the bottom of the river that would probably still be alive. Both had 3-4" of mono cut off hanging out of their mouth and were gut hooked. I was fishing above one of the sculpin bait guides and heard him say "we have a take, let him swallow it and then set the hook". You gut hook a big brown or any trout and think they will live after fighting them, probably not. 

Here are the results, both found dead on the bottom of the river.

 

[rps]

4 hours ago, netboy said:

If you think bait fishing for browns is a good thing, here are a couple of dead browns I have picked up off the bottom of the river that would probably still be alive. Both had 3-4" of mono cut off hanging out of their mouth and were gut hooked. I was fishing above one of the sculpin bait guides and heard him say "we have a take, let him swallow it and then set the hook". One was at Cotter and the other at the Narrows. You gut hook a big brown or any trout and think they will live after fighting them, probably not. 

Here are the results, both found dead on the bottom of the river.

 

netboy, you are one heck of a fisherman. I look forward to your posts.

Perhaps we all need to rethink our points of view. Rights, powers, privileges, and duties are real world, not some ideal.

Who pays for the fishery? The hatchery costs, the stocking costs, the monitoring, and the enforcement? Not the small minority of pure fly fishermen. Those who pay are tourists, bait fishermen, jerk bait fishermen, and drunken corporate outings. Their license fees and trout stamp fees make purist's fees look what they are -> drops in the bucket. Without those people, your fishery would not exist. 

I understand your viewpoint and your passion.

I have seen it before in TU lobbying to make areas fishable only by their own preferred methods. I have noticed how the areas they target are the best areas. Explain Rim Shoals regulations to me, please. A simple example explains much. You suggested unscented plastics. That is a page from regulations lobbied for by TU, and designed to thwart any method other than their own chosen ones.

Next, let us address you argument above. Yes trout die. Some from abuse. I agree, monofilament extending from a dead fish mouth is criminal. However, not every fish on the bottom was killed by a bait fisherman or a treble hook wielding tourist. Not every fish on a fly lives. Tell me you have never gill hooked a fish on a fly. The fish management algorithms take that into consideration.

Other than walleye and bluegills, I have been a catch and release fisherman for 40+ years. I have paid thousands of dollars in license fees - in state, out of state, hunting, fishing, trout stamps, border lakes, whatever. I would think you might let the rest of us enjoy what we have earned.

 

 

 

 

[tjm]

1 hour ago, rps said:

monofilament extending from a dead fish mouth is criminal.

I would say that not ;leaving the line dangling from a deep hooked fish should be criminal. 

I'm not going to look them up for you but over the past 30-50 years at least three studies have shown that fish have better chance of survival when the  line is cut a foot from the mouth and allowed to drag. All the  studies that I read said that when the line is cut close the hooks tend to turn crosswise to the gullet and prevent swallowing of food resulting in starvation,  the hanging line keeps the hook aligned with the throat and allows food to pass. 

 Here is a cut from a North American Journal of Fisheries Management article that has some numbers indicating bait may not be all that evil.

Quote

Mortality of rainbow trout Oncorhynchus mykiss caught and released by anglers using number 8 worm-baited hooks was investigated during 1990–1991 at the Hagerman (Idaho) State Fish Hatchery and within a 2-km segment of Badger Creek, Idaho. Cutting the line on deep-hooked rainbow trout reduced postrelease mortality by 36% in the hatchery and 58% in the wild during observations of 60 and 29–34 d, respectively. Seventy-four percent of hatchery rainbow trout and 60% of wild rainbow trout that had been hooked deeply and released by cutting the line shed hooks during the same periods. There were no significant differences (P > 0.05) in condition factors among surviving control, light-hooked, and deep-hooked hatchery rainbow trout. Seventeen percent of 281 wild rainbow trout on Badger Creek were hooked in the gills or esophagus. Overall, hooking mortality was estimated to be 16% for wild rainbow trout. No significant differences in the incidence of deep hooking were observed between small ( 0.05). The frequency of deep hooking was associated with the type of stream habitat where hooking occurred (P < 0.02) and was higher for catches on a “slack line” than a “tight line” (P < 0.001). These data suggest that stream locations where bait anglers actually catch fish and the general habitat characteristics of a stream could influence bait-related hooking mortality.

Granted it may not be fully applicable to tailwaters where  trout do much better than in the wild, where natural mortality can run 50-70% in some years. 

Now I am a fly rod only fisherman and have been for most of the past 40-50 years and if there were any science to support fly only as better for the fish I'd be yelling for such regulations on all waters.But there doesn't seem to be any.  Never mind that no one anywhere can define  what constitutes "Fly Fishing".  Or even what is or isn't a fly.  And the science supporting C&R is kinda thin and tends to gloss over the fatalities from C&R as being within the range of natural mortality, skipping the part about it might be in addition to. 

As to the barbless hook argument, several studies in several places also show that barbed hooks result in exactly the same mortality that barbless hooks do, so we can say that barbless are no worse than barbed for C&R.  Barbless have one great advantage over barbed and that is when the angler hooks himself, it is much easier to turn him loose. 

I decided years ago that AGFC regulations don't even look to science, but are strictly political and based around generating money. Fish welfare and welfare of the fisheries always take back seat to the tourist dollar. 

[netboy]

I am sure I have probably killed a few trout that were hooked in the gills with a barbless fly and bleeding.

However, I would suspect the overall mortality rate of released fish in the C&R areas is far less than those released in the bait areas.