
tjm
OAF Fishing Contributor-
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Everything posted by tjm
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Ethics is like religion or politics in that it varies with occasion and the people involved. A very twisted and convoluted branch of philosophy. I think there is no action that can not be shown to be ethical under some one of the systems of ethics. Chumming for fish is exactly the same as chumming for deer and both are time honored traditions in some places and among some people. I think ethics of chumming is like ethics of catch and release or ethics of gill netting gamefish, it exists only in the eye of the beholder. It depends only on the time and place. Any action can be justified or condemned by one religion or another. So we are left to look at the legality of it and say if it is legal it is legal. We could attempt to change the legality of one action or another, but then we may be infringing of others "natural rights" . Some us would probably think bass tournaments are ethical, I don't. Some seem to think that eating a bass in unethical, I just think there are tasting fish, others think it is the highest and best use of a god given resource.Is it ethical for me to restrict your natural right to eat a crappie? Or a hamburger? A vegan might say "yes", not only ethical but of great benefit to the universe. Is using a paid guide ethical? Isn't that akin to buying your fish or game? Didn't the custom of tipping a guide come from the thought that paid guides was unethical? Is there a difference between paying a guide to put you over fish with electronics and paying the same guide to put the fish under you with chum? Corn may not hurt trout and maybe they can digest some corn, but I have seen days on small streams that had trout with swollen bellies floating belly up or laying upside down on the bottom, and cut open half a dozen to find them with nothing in their digestive tract except yellow corn. One fishery biologist, when I reported it said unequivocally that whole corn could not pass through a trout, said he also thought it created a chemical reaction/imbalance or something like that, fermentation maybe, I forget, long time passing.The fact that they are chumming that heavy and the trout are not dying is most encouraging.
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why do other states have bigger smallmouth bass?
tjm replied to MoCarp's topic in Conservation Issues
By gig or line? Think that is all C&R no Stabbing. -
why do other states have bigger smallmouth bass?
tjm replied to MoCarp's topic in Conservation Issues
Isn't that lake in Canada? Those are invasive Canadian fish. Wet back fish. Kill them all and let the cook sort them out. Gosh I hope we Ozarkians never get as stupid as the communists in New York. About anything. -
That same site indicates tench were imported about the same time as the other German fish, presumably by the same idiots, apparently stocked at several places in Mo and failed, including two or more stockings in Spring River (SWMo) drainage, at least one stocking in Hickory Creek. Really is remarkable how hard the US government tried to destroy our native fisheries.
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So, what caused the large huge white space in my above post? and can that be edited out if I do it again? never mind I fixed that but can not remove/delete this, ...
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I've caught redbreast in New England, colloquially roach, and thought I had seen some locally; so according to this they were established in Flat Creek Cassville MO in 1960 survey. https://nas.er.usgs.gov/viewer/omap.aspx?SpeciesID=379 and this shows in upper White River drainage AR in 1980 https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/collectioninfo.aspx?SpeciesID=379 Brookies that look like that in the northeastern US come out of streams that you can step across and often the state people don't know or don't admit their existence. The meat is bright orange and delicious.
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Here's an interesting factoid for ya...
tjm replied to fishinwrench's topic in Tips & Tricks, Boat Help and Product Review
I didn't like that F150 much and at two years old with around 8,500 miles it sold for $1700. Would love to have the '66 Mustang I sold for $700 in '71 back, I think it would be worth more now. Still it a marvelous thing when machinery is taken care of how long it does last. -
Here's an interesting factoid for ya...
tjm replied to fishinwrench's topic in Tips & Tricks, Boat Help and Product Review
I bought a new F150 for $3100 in 1974. But that was more or less real dollars, the world hadn't quite figured out fiat money; and gas was still around 30 cents a gallon. Your motor cost about 19% of my truck cost, so today should sell for around $10,000. -
Will the State be Selling our State Parks.
tjm replied to bkbying89's topic in General Angling Discussion
If DNR can't fund them as Parks transfer them to MDC as Conservation Areas. State Park near me has never had any development except a short hiking trial, closed to hunting trapping and fishing even though it has creek frontage, a few thousand acres designated Natural Area and the recreation that takes place there is evident by the 'rubber' in the parking lot. -
oh,no; old news is fake news Ain't it? Yep demographics would be all them dang boaters, huh? I've said they were all lowlife maggots ever since the first time a wake filled my waders.
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good luck OAF, everyone else can suck it.. Eh?
tjm replied to FishinCricket's topic in Bennett Springs State Park
fishinwrench, did you send a link to the local agent? -
good luck OAF, everyone else can suck it.. Eh?
tjm replied to FishinCricket's topic in Bennett Springs State Park
Bet they can't spell genius either. They know now the comments section covered that. -
good luck OAF, everyone else can suck it.. Eh?
tjm replied to FishinCricket's topic in Bennett Springs State Park
Were they in the Zone area? been 30 years since I fished there so don't recognize the hole) Because he said Niangua River below Bennet, and the MDC site says " Catch-and-release rules do not apply to fishing in the winter on the Niangua River... All regular-season rules and regulations regarding licenses, permits and possession limits are in effect, however, and brown trout cannot be kept unless they are 15” or more in length. " I may have missed it but did they refer to Cricket or this forum? Again because MDC says that stretch is good for bass and rock bass. I don't think this thread is what got them there. -
That will generate some school funds. Can they take the boat too like in other crimes? Criminals will be criminals and poachers will poach, since they were violating the gig law in a couple of ways this doesn't really have anything to do with legal giging, does it? I believe it comes from allowing the use of boats on that water. A background investigation for all boat registration might keep some criminal types from that kind of poaching.
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Wonder what % of Mo. fishermen are primarily catch to release fishermen, never handle fish out of the water, never kill fish, never give fish boat rides , barbless single hook guys? heck count the release to die guys too and the ones that use lures with multiple trebles Would that number of permit sales pay for the research and management of all the fisheries? Acquisition of more access? How many people come through the state each year that buy a short NR permit would buy one if catch to release were mandatory? How many kids never start fishing because of don't keep laws? That one is impossible to guess.
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Prohibit boats too, I can kinda see where that would help; but it wouldn't be very popular. Do they prohibit boats in Indiana?
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Not been there and don't plan to go, had to search "Dream Stream" though, as I had never heard of it. Pics look like a canal (no shade either) running through a dessert so the scenery is different than Norfork. Ad said they sometimes get salmon, so thats different. 3.8 miles Co. or 5 miles Ar. If I had a choice right now, I'd go to Ar. But if I had never been west I might chose differently. Good luck.
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math challenged? So, prohibit a method, say worm dunking that was mentioned, (gig/bow/ Treble hooks/whatever) and the folks that practice that method will not buy permits, get it? Loss of revenue, see? Heck, they might even turn around and prohibit your method or mine. The current extra special smallmouth management says I cannot keep any pan size smallmouth on the nearby river, why would I buy a permit to fish if it's illegal to keep them? Again loss of revenue. Keep the trend going and soon only the few will have to pay all the cost of fish management, straw and camel?
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Them cat fish only got that big because there were no gig fishers on that part of the Mississippi and Missouri. Now you posted that there will be a rush to gig that area. Then there will be no more carp left there either.
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good luck OAF, everyone else can suck it.. Eh?
tjm replied to FishinCricket's topic in Bennett Springs State Park
This how I would expect it to work from the study I did. Prosecutor has to look at the facts and at all those precedents then determine if the case is valid or not. Next instance will be treated the same way, just as the Scotus has directed. Actually I think very few trespass cases go to court, I saw numbers somewhere once and iirc it was only couple hundred statewide in that year and total fines were like $7000. Given size of the state and number of incidents I hear of I was surprised. That may been just number fish and wildlife related. -
good luck OAF, everyone else can suck it.. Eh?
tjm replied to FishinCricket's topic in Bennett Springs State Park
On the subject of access, I heard rumor a number of years ago that the canoe rental people were behind the closing of row access, guy told me that they wanted all floats to go through them, money involved he said. Suppose that might be true? -
Average joes buy more licenses than trophy joes do, y"all need to stop and thank them for paying most of the management cost so that you can play. Trophy management just might cost that support if the regulations are too slanted against them. Personally I have no real desire to catch just large fish, rather catch many fish; big ones count the same as tiny ones when you are there for the act of fishing in a beautiful place. No lake in the world has good fishing, none. And if you have to have to measure it in inches or in pounds, you have missed to point.
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It depends, some places (state wide?) 12"-6 fish, some places (special management areas, some or all?) 15"-1 fish. https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/fishing/seasons/species this list some of the special management areas https://mdc.mo.gov/search/google-appliance/special%2Bmanagement%2Bareas I think the theory is keep adding more regulations and making them harder to find til only catch and release folks bother to buy a permit.
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good luck OAF, everyone else can suck it.. Eh?
tjm replied to FishinCricket's topic in Bennett Springs State Park
Got any ideas for a solution to the access problem? I think the elimination of parking is deliberate, small enforcement budgets and lots of complaints (not just the few idiots, the many idiots) brings a county to the point where economics play a part. "No parking" signs didn't work so they remove the possibility. I know a couple places where the state road row is wide enough that you could in the past drive down the ditch bank to the stream under the bridge that the state removed the access. (I assumed at county request.) Case law is (in my understanding) only applied in the courts, in this case it would be a guide for the prosecutor to press trespass charges or not to and to the court in deciding the charge. But it would not prevent a landowner from filing charges, if a charge is filed I believe the sheriff is obliged to make an arrest, isn't he? Navigability does play a large part, not because of the obvious reasons though, navigability at time of state hood determined who owns the stream bed and thus has bearing on land adjacent. Then fifty eleven prior decisions both at federal level and in similar state cases are compared with the facts . As to whether a stream meets requirements as an easement, in an A.G. opinion in 1971 John Danforth suggested the prosecuting attorney for the given county was "in the best position to make such determination" then lists a number of rivers in Mo. that had been judged as navigable or as to easement for the prosecutor to use as comparison. Danforth said that in Elder it says "Each case involving a river must be decided with reference to it's own facts". I don't think size of stream bed or discharge rate is necessarily the determining factor.