tjm

MDC used to stock above the dam (before they owned any of the land) and back then I've seen and caught trout above the pond, (at the time you could park at that bridge) and I saw some trout being stocked in the pond that were scheduled to go elsewhere once too, so depending on when you were first there the trout you saw may have been holdovers from a past stocking. But I can't recall any means that fish could pass the dam from back then. Redds in the middle section sounds encouraging, I've been told in the past that some reproduction was happening in that creek, but had never found any evidence of it.

The parr are interesting, has anyone seen redds there? can the trout get up/over the mill dam to the springs?

Was too cold for me, even though I had the tackle ready to go. I used to fish in minus temps, with ice on the guides, but these days don't find it much fun when the air drops below ~40F. When I talked to the hatchery driver there last spring, he told me they always stocked the browns in November, so I'm surprised that they haven't stocked the stream recently. Should have been an October stocking of rainbows from what I was told, but given how few fish were being stocked at RRSP over the summer, the stocking might have been a small one.

Any place you can dig fishing worms with a sharp pencil and the brush is too thick to swing a shotgun should be good habitat.

They seem to be a lot more common in the New England states. Not too hard to find at all, if you walk in the right kind of woods. And there is a lot more moist dirt there than here. In the 14 years I spent there, I don't recall ever seeing completely dry dirt.

I used to hunt them back east, but in this area I've only seen them in spring. Very erratic flyers.

In this post it was stated that any stream in the Ozarks needs 75CFS to be marginally floatable a canoe and 150 CFS to be easily floatable. https://forums.ozarkanglers.com/topic/68322-cfs-vs-gauge-height-debate/?do=findComment&comment=597149 He goes on to explain why and how, the whole thread might be interesting to you as it covers reading and interpreting the USGS gauges.

When I was a kid Dad and Grandpa and others in the area free ranged hogs until the pigs were 50-60# and then we trapped the sow and pigs by tolling with whole corn for a week or two (depending on how far from home) until they'd go right in the pen when they saw you dumping corn. I reckon a 3-400# sow with 12-15 pigs is as dangerous as I ever want to see. I have no doubt that she would eat a man. A week in the pen and they start to become somewhat tame again, but you still don't dare enter the pen with her and you extract the pigs with a lariat. these were sows that we had raised in pens until they were breeding age. Two liters a year and from four up to six years of production, our average litter of 12-15, (they'd butcher a sow the farrowed less than 10 or one that failed to keep them alive) is something like 90-180 offspring from one sow. Every farm in the area had an earmark that was recognized by all the neighbors. Crop, split, overbit, underbit and combinations of, with left and right ears both marked makes a lot of marks to used. I guess that probably ended about 1970, maybe a year or three sooner.

Looking back at places I used to catch native brookies, it's hard to imagine a drought killed an established population. They can thrive in a stream a hand width wide or deep. I just looked at the USGS site and they only show a failed introduction in 1879. I guess the MDC must have failed to report those stockings and records. And talking about Crane, what ever happened to the DNA study they were doing there? We know the railroad story is made up to sell newspapers, because the railroad didn't go there until (IIRC) 1905. However early fish stockings were often done with wagons and pack trains so the early (188?) stocking is possible, but it's also possible that it was not the last stocking there, and it's just as possible that some trout did survive your drought, either in the James or in a cave spring or in an isolated pot hole fed by spring that sinks after only few yards. I guess that drought didn't hit this area that hard, my springs flowed all through the '90s and the creek never went dry.

I wasn't even aware that Mo ever had stocked brook trout. Were they stocked in many places or just a few? when?

I suppose it'll turn out either Cotter or the dam area of Norfork. Thanks all for the input.

I guess I'm not a very good trout catcher, in almost 50 years with the fly rod I've never caught a trout on either an an egg fly nor SJ Worm and it's not because I didn't try them. Tom Nixon has always been my bass fishing reference. So I probably don't know much about them either. Never heard of Tim Holschlag, but when I look him up, the dude is dead so he no longer is either a clown or a writer.

I rarely use wooly buggers and only once used a crackleback, but I sure the stuff needed for them is in my tub. But I have to try every interesting material that I see from socks to life jacket stuffing, and cigarette filters. It's interesting to look for something that won't catch a fish. I have thrown away more stuff than I have now over the years. Wigs, doll hair, craft furs, yarns, bead wire, mop, Swannundaze, some kind of synthetic dub, etc. are some things I remember tossing, but I still have the Fishair that I bought 40+ years ago and used twice, don't know why. Don't know why I have three ringneck skins either, one will tie a lot of flies. I don't have and never have had any Jungle Fowl, and don't know why on that either. Got rid of some stuff last year when both middle aged sons decided to start tying their own, I sorted out a grocery bag full of this and that for each, then turned around and bought a half dozen capes, a Hungarian grouse and some "plastic canvas yarns" to fill in the space in the storage tub; so back to where I was with different stuff.

Lead free is, I think, the emphasis, some people still think lead dissolves in water and that ducks feed on the bottom in 50' of water. Get the same weight by using a bigger head. So the search needs to be "Bismuth Tin Jig Heads" and some examples- https://leadfreejigheads.com/gpage.html https://www.rotometals.com/lead-free-fishing-tackle-weight-bismuth-tin-alloy-281/ https://jadesjigs.com/ https://hookheadz.com/shop/lead-free-jig-heads/lead-free-bismuth-tin-jig-heads-red/

Other jig makers are using tin bismuth alloy that is about 20% lighter than lead. Search the web for "lead free jigs". Mass is weight without gravity, what he wants to keep is the volume or bulk. Solder was also my first thought, although I was thinking of a 70/30 tin/lead solder. If a bead is used I'd try a copper bead and flux it so the lead might adhere to it.

Must be a 'fly tyers' forum some place, at least you would be in with other addicts. I keep mine down to about 30 gallons.

I've printed off the AGFC maps for both tail waters. Wait and see how much time we have on the day I guess (and how exhausted I am from the ride) What do you mean by crossing the shoal?

oh, this son is past childhood going on 49, he might want to look at that kid's section though for a future trip with his kids. Since the trip is not primarily for fishing and scheduled around other reasons, the generation flows will just be what they are and given past trips over there years ago when my Mom taught at Theodosia, I fully expect too much water. Probably been in the area 15-20 times over the years and have never been there when they weren't running lots of water. It's his trip though, I'm just along for the ride and with 3+ hours each way and his business, there won't be much time for exploration and fishing. It's why I asked about easy access. I hadn't thought about the North Fork, my initial thoughts were Cotter-Rim Shoals area as being on the route, and I can't recall how long it takes to get from a to b in that area. How long does it take from 412/62 to reach the Norfork Dam? @gotmuddy time is more of a constraint than distance I guess, and travel time eats into any fishing time. Something less than 1/2 hour would be best I think. And will likely be afternoon or evening.

In about a week I expect to make a quick trip to MH with the oldest son for a non-fishing reason, and wondered about easy access areas (from US412) for a short fly fishing wade. I don't think we'll have much time for exploration, but the son and I would like to wet the lines and tease a trout. If anyone wanted to suggest a spot or two we'd appreciate it. If you don't mind telling me, but don't want it public, send a PM.

Back before fly shops were a thing, the varnished wire from small transformers, motors and relays was the main source of copper. And fuse wire was the main source of lead for fly tying, or one could go to a electric shop where they repair motors and get the leftover from a rewind job still new on the spool, since the winding must be continuous partial spools might never be used because it's hard to know if there is enough wire or just 'almost enough'. Electric winding wire is softer and finer than the bead craft wire, (I'm not sure I've ever seen pure copper wire used in beading) smaller motors, transformers or relays can have very fine wire while large items will provide wire in the bead craft sizes. I have a couple of motor windings from battery powered toys that I acquired about 50 years ago that have provided wire for a lot of flies and still have a life time supply left. I was taught to extract the lead core wire from trolling line to use in place of fuse wire and five colors of trolling line is a lifetime supply of fly tying lead. Just cut a 2-3' piece of lead core line and push the braid off to expose the lead, the braid will work like 'finger cuffs' and the bright color makes it easy to find in the mess on my table. All the trolling lines 18# and bigger use the same size lead wire and it weighs about 11 grains per foot. That size lead works on hooks from #18-#2 and as the hook diameter varies with the size the bigger hooks automatically get more weight. One thing to think about, fly tying is a tiny niche market and any single material used is even a much tinier market, so the probability of any material being manufactured specifically for fly tying is really tiny also. Most (all?) tying materials are adaptations of something used in some industrial application and repackaged. That repackaging and labeling increase the cost about tenfold. But, the repackaging means convenience and and makes materials available in small quantities, so that we don't have to buy (and store) a lifetime supply of every material if we only intend to tie a dozen flies that need that precise material.

What is the deepest you've ever visually seen beds? Bass spawning at 50' is surprising, since the reading materials usually suggest ~20' as being the limit. Light penetration in water has so many variables that it's hard to believe that it would be consistent enough or of enough duration at 50' for the spawn to be successful, but that doesn't mean the fish know that. I also wonder if the fry would be affected by that depth. Is there even enough plankton for them to eat at that depth?

gate would be at/in the tunnel not at the dam, but if there is no gate the water would always be flowing through the tunnel and consequently through the generators. And since the tunnel opening must be lower than the dam there would never be water flowing over the dam.

@bfishnBought a few trout dinners from the Cave Springs hatchery back in the '60s. Were the trout in the creek there escapees or stocked? Kieth also had a "Dude Ranch" where the present day Walmart is at the state line and my kid brother led trail rides for him. When Cooper was recruiting the first crop of retirees, he gave away "Ozark vacations" at big business conventions and used Kieth's resort and dude ranch as entertainment between tours of The Village with his salesmen.

Bella Vista has not been primarily a retirement community for decades, 53.6% of the population is 54 or younger and 22.3% under the age of 24. It hasn't been a village for 17 years, truly, I am amazed that the POA still has the power that it has. Those young parents and school kids likely don't get much use out of the golf pastures or the lakes either. You guys are essentially paying for two town governments. I long for the old days before Cooper slipped in and bought up all those small farm and timber lands so cheap, when Bella Vista was just a resort owned by Old Man Kieth. But times change. The population of all of Benton County was less then than the population of Bella Vista now.

They didn't stock many all summer, 1 1/4 fish per tag I was told vs previous years 2 1/2 fish per tag. (I seem to think that years ago it 3/1) Supposedly they were shipping fish to Bennett. The local that told me this was kinda upset about it. I usually hit the park on Tue or Wed after any holiday weekend and find the pools stacked full, that didn't happen at all last summer.