Me And Babler Are Headed To Loz For Some Crappie!

[crappiefisherman]

If I may ask a question on the fishing principle not the legality issue.Do these docks have sunken trees under them or are these fish just hanging under the dock structure? I find it very interesting when they seem to be in channels by now, are these docks over lake channels?I figure this is a stupid question, but Im bettin I can get an enlightened answer.

[Phil Lilley]

This was my first time on LOZ, as I said. There are docks ALL OVER the lake. There's hardly a bare shore anywhere. We did look for docks in deeper water.

I bet some docks have brush. LOZ is an old lake so what brush is there is put there. If I had a dock there it would be full of brush.

[laker67]

This was my first time on LOZ, as I said. There are docks ALL OVER the lake. There's hardly a bare shore anywhere. We did look for docks in deeper water.

I bet some docks have brush. LOZ is an old lake so what brush is there is put there. If I had a dock there it would be full of brush.

Docks and brush are a natural attractor to shad. About any structure below the surface of the water will grow algea. The shad are attracted to the algea for feeding. Plankton gets trapped on the algea as it drifts along in the current. Boat lifts, the encapselated foam blocks, dock cables, all grow algea and trap plankton for the shad to feed on. Crappie lay in ambush between the foam blocks, brush, etc. The shad's preferred temp is about 45 degrees, which translates to about 8 to 10 feet below the surface on LOZ at this point. That's why Lilley and Babbler were catching them at the 8 to 12 foot mark. When the wind is blowing, plankton drifts into the docks and gets trapped or detained long enough for shad to congregate. All fish on LOZ, follow the shad.

[Bill Babler]

Here's one for ya. I just love this stuff. Spoke to an employee of AmerenUS this afternoon. Some quick dock facts for ya. If you are lapsed on your permits or your dock does not meet criteria of AmerenUS as far as structural soundness and encapulation, even though you bought and paid for the dock, it is not yours. PERIOD. AmerianUS has the legal ability to take the dock and its contense and remove it from the lake. They also have the power to keep your boat or what ever is attached to the unapproved or un-licensed dock. They may also charge you a removal fee.

Starting in 2009, they will start to enforce this, They are saying that there are 25,000 to 30,000 unapproved docks on the lake at this time. You heard me right.

With 58,000 acres and what we thought used to be 1550 miles of shoreline, now proved by GPS to be 1750 there are 98,000 approved private docks, not counting multi-family or commercial or sub-division, or resort docks. Add the 30,000 of unapproved and my guy told me about 200,000 slips. Of that they have no idea who or whom ever ownes over 15,000 of these properties. Thru death and time they are just there and no record of ownership is available. Some of the houses conected with the docks has not had occupants in years and the taxes on some have lapsed. What a mess.

From Coffman Bend to Warsaw there has been just about zero enforcement of dock regulations, and it shows with some of these docks sunken and thousands being non-permited and in very poor disrepair. Not to mention the hundreds of fishing piers and still to this day docks with barrels under them in the Ivey Bend area.

AmerenUS, has no interest of enforcing any type of a trespass rule as far as private docks, are concerned. And they feel they own the 25 to 30 thousand that have failed to lic. properly.

Also another tidbit. On multi slip docks that are not posted every slip owner would have to file a complaint against a person fishing on the dock without permission. If you have a 20 slip dock and one slip owner says no, I won't proscute a guy for crappie fishing the case would be thrown out.

If you are fishing a posted dock and it goes the entire route, and you are proscuted in Camden County this is a class B misdemener. ie Traffic ticket. Max $125.00 plus court cost. From what I understand, you would have to have not only the dock owner swear out a warrant, but have a law enforcement official see you on the dock.

None of this makes it right, to fish these docks, but the likelyhood of being prosecuted for crappie fishing a dock especially from the 70 mile mark to Warsaw is just about the odds of winning the lottery, 23 million to one. And for cripes sakes who cares anyway.

Wrench, if your deal was in Camden County, you would have had a gripe. Is Gravois creek in Camden or Morgan? Don't know the Morgan regs. Just cause you get a ticket, does not mean you are wrong. Thats why we have a judicial system. From what I know now, if it was Camden County and you would have pleaded your case according to statute, it would have been dropped. Wish I could have gotten to this earlier and saved you a few bucks. I know at one time in Morgan County about 70 percent of the MDC cases were dropped just by the defendant appearing at the trial. MDC loves you to just mail in a fine. If you take it to court, they do not have a very good record of conviction. I find this very sad. Mostly because there is quite a bit of crap being written to try and justify themselves instead of what is truely just and right. That's another topic, and we won't go there.

Am not condoning any type of trespass. The attorney also told me trespass is used by lawenforcement as a plea bargain tool. It is usually in conjuction with several other charges. Usually battiery, vandelism, theft. That makes for charges with the most minor being trespass. This is usually what is pleaded down to, and the others are dropped.

Most common trespass is wife abuse. Or a conjunction and restrainging order to keep away or stay off the property. With the actors recieving verbal and written orders to stay away. Next most common instance is theft. The last being trespass during hunting seasons, but there are criteria that has to be met for prosecution, and I stated them in a previous post.

I am ready to go onto something new, thats it for me.

Thanks all this has been very interesting.

[FishinCricket]

We do a little thing called a slingshot cast. It's fun and works great. There's also baits like the Knight "Little Fishie" and a few other flat sided soft plastic minnow types that skip really well with a circular sidearm type cast. With a little practice you can shoot a jig under the dock from one side to the other, and in between the pieces of foam or encapsulated flotation. It's a neat technique, I'm sure there are a few video's on YouTube somewhere. Bill Dance even had a episode on it once.

Poor aim is probably a main contributor to all those jigs that are hung on your customers lift hoses and boat covers... LOL

[twosets]

"If I may ask a question on the fishing principle not the legality issue.Do these docks have sunken trees under them or are these fish just hanging under the dock structure?"

Many people on the lake build crappie beds under their docks, every year adding christmas trees or cedars. I would bet most old docks have some stuff sunk under them. In periods of low water you can really see them sticking out all over the place, even under some nice new docks.

[fishinwrench]

Brush is not a necessity for a dock to hold some good crappie, docks positioned over or near bottom structure (points, creek channels ect.) will hold fish just as well...and sometimes better. Now that the lake is low and you can see the shoreline, look for docks close to areas where the bottom composition changes (gravel to chunk rock, or chunk rock to bluff, for example). or docks positioned at the spot where a creek or river channel swings in close to the bank. Those type docks are most consistent on a year-round basis, especially during winter and during severe cold fronts. One of the best winter docks that I know of on this lake has only 15 ft. of water on the out end of it, it is positioned where a little well defined creek ditch runs tight to a shallow point in the back end of a big cove.

Bottom line: look for places that would be good even if a dock wasn't there. Brush is an extra (if there is any there) but it doesn't need to be.

And pay close attention to the angle of the sun. If a dock cast a shadow 25 feet off one side there may be fish suspended at the edge of that shade line.....which will be behind you if you were fishing THE DOCK.

One last tip on dock fishing then I'll shut up: The anchor cables that run from the corner of the dock to the bank, even though they might only be 10 inches below the surface where they sag down ? Never-ever pass up a parallel cast by them at different depths, fish relate to them in a big way...they love'em. Some docks also have cables off the out-end attached to concrete anchors down deep. And don't forget NO WAKE bouy cables on cloudy days (hint: they lean with the current during generation).

Go get'em. Good luck

[ColdWaterFshr]

Here's one for ya. I just love this stuff. Spoke to an employee of AmerenUS this afternoon. Some quick dock facts for ya. If you are lapsed on your permits or your dock does not meet criteria of AmerenUS as far as structural soundness and encapulation, even though you bought and paid for the dock, it is not yours. PERIOD. AmerianUS has the legal ability to take the dock and its contense and remove it from the lake. They also have the power to keep your boat or what ever is attached to the unapproved or un-licensed dock. They may also charge you a removal fee.

Starting in 2009, they will start to enforce this, They are saying that there are 25,000 to 30,000 unapproved docks on the lake at this time. You heard me right.

With 58,000 acres and what we thought used to be 1550 miles of shoreline, now proved by GPS to be 1750 there are 98,000 approved private docks, not counting multi-family or commercial or sub-division, or resort docks. Add the 30,000 of unapproved and my guy told me about 200,000 slips. Of that they have no idea who or whom ever ownes over 15,000 of these properties. Thru death and time they are just there and no record of ownership is available. Some of the houses conected with the docks has not had occupants in years and the taxes on some have lapsed. What a mess.

From Coffman Bend to Warsaw there has been just about zero enforcement of dock regulations, and it shows with some of these docks sunken and thousands being non-permited and in very poor disrepair. Not to mention the hundreds of fishing piers and still to this day docks with barrels under them in the Ivey Bend area.

AmerenUS, has no interest of enforcing any type of a trespass rule as far as private docks, are concerned. And they feel they own the 25 to 30 thousand that have failed to lic. properly.

Also another tidbit. On multi slip docks that are not posted every slip owner would have to file a complaint against a person fishing on the dock without permission. If you have a 20 slip dock and one slip owner says no, I won't proscute a guy for crappie fishing the case would be thrown out.

If you are fishing a posted dock and it goes the entire route, and you are proscuted in Camden County this is a class B misdemener. ie Traffic ticket. Max $125.00 plus court cost. From what I understand, you would have to have not only the dock owner swear out a warrant, but have a law enforcement official see you on the dock.

None of this makes it right, to fish these docks, but the likelyhood of being prosecuted for crappie fishing a dock especially from the 70 mile mark to Warsaw is just about the odds of winning the lottery, 23 million to one. And for cripes sakes who cares anyway.

Wrench, if your deal was in Camden County, you would have had a gripe. Is Gravois creek in Camden or Morgan? Don't know the Morgan regs. Just cause you get a ticket, does not mean you are wrong. Thats why we have a judicial system. From what I know now, if it was Camden County and you would have pleaded your case according to statute, it would have been dropped. Wish I could have gotten to this earlier and saved you a few bucks. I know at one time in Morgan County about 70 percent of the MDC cases were dropped just by the defendant appearing at the trial. MDC loves you to just mail in a fine. If you take it to court, they do not have a very good record of conviction. I find this very sad. Mostly because there is quite a bit of crap being written to try and justify themselves instead of what is truely just and right. That's another topic, and we won't go there.

Am not condoning any type of trespass. The attorney also told me trespass is used by lawenforcement as a plea bargain tool. It is usually in conjuction with several other charges. Usually battiery, vandelism, theft. That makes for charges with the most minor being trespass. This is usually what is pleaded down to, and the others are dropped.

Most common trespass is wife abuse. Or a conjunction and restrainging order to keep away or stay off the property. With the actors recieving verbal and written orders to stay away. Next most common instance is theft. The last being trespass during hunting seasons, but there are criteria that has to be met for prosecution, and I stated them in a previous post.

I am ready to go onto something new, thats it for me.

Thanks all this has been very interesting.

Interesting indeed. Interesting in terms of the grandeur of the rationalizations in your post I must say. The docks you shot footage on certainly didn't appear to be in any state of desrepair, or in jeopardy of losing permits. For the most part, they appeared well-maintained, if not downright modern, with boats elevated on lifts and what not. Cleaning fish, you were, right there on the spic and span, clean boardwalk that granny may have swept off earlier in the afternoon. If she had been there 2 hrs ago or 20 years ago, so what? Winter or summer. So? This doesn't have a to do with how many bajillion docks there are on Lake of the Oz, how many are half-sunk, or Ameren UE, or even why baitfish like algae that grow on horizontal mooring cables.

Go up on those same docks and fish the same way during the summer and see how well you're received, and theres your answer. Regardless of what signs you got posted, or failed to post, I can't imagine either you or Phil would want strangers on your docks fishing anytime they danged pleased. It isn't law as much as it is courtesy and respect for others property.

[Phil Lilley]

Interesting indeed. Interesting in terms of the grandeur of the rationalizations in your post I must say. The docks you shot footage on certainly didn't appear to be in any state of desrepair, or in jeopardy of losing permits. For the most part, they appeared well-maintained, if not downright modern, with boats elevated on lifts and what not. Cleaning fish, you were, right there on the spic and span, clean boardwalk that granny may have swept off earlier in the afternoon. If she had been there 2 hrs ago or 20 years ago, so what? Winter or summer. So? This doesn't have a to do with how many bajillion docks there are on Lake of the Oz, how many are half-sunk, or Ameren UE, or even why baitfish like algae that grow on horizontal mooring cables.

Go up on those same docks and fish the same way during the summer and see how well you're received, and theres your answer. Regardless of what signs you got posted, or failed to post, I can't imagine either you or Phil would want strangers on your docks fishing anytime they danged pleased. It isn't law as much as it is courtesy and respect for others property.

I think both of us, Bill and I, have admitted just what you're stating. Bill isn't trying to justify anything, just pointing out interesting facts he's researched. Not sure why we keep getting beat over the head for this. I may just delete this post, the article and the video and be done with it.

[jjtroutbum]

If you are lapsed on your permits or your dock does not meet criteria of AmerenUS as far as structural soundness and encapsulation, even though you bought and paid for the dock, it is not yours. PERIOD. AmerianUS has the legal ability to take the dock and its contense and remove it from the lake. They also have the power to keep your boat or what ever is attached to the unapproved or un-licensed dock. They may also charge you a removal fee.

Starting in 2009, they will start to enforce this, They are saying that there are 25,000 to 30,000 unapproved docks on the lake at this time. You heard me right.

Sounds like a fella could make a nice living repossessing docks on the lake for several years.