Little Piney Access - Run-In With Landowner

[tjm]

Part of the ruling in Elder v Delcour is that per previous Federal law every stream must be determined as an easement based on it's own facts, this means that each stream has to be run through a court room in front of a Judge before it's legally a public thoroughfare. We have for a long time just assumed that any stream as big as or having similar history to the section used in Elder v Delcour would automatically fall under that thoroughfare status, they don't legally and the "law" can't be changed, because it's case law that goes back to 19th century Federal Court decisions. I suspect that if I got myself arrested on such a stream  and then went to Court with a good lawyer that the charges would be dropped, thus the same action can be repeated many times and the stream is still not a certain public easement.  

One of you guys should organize a coalition to tresspass on, get arrested for it  and take each and every  small stream in Mo. through a trial similar to Elder v Delcour. Should get tons of support from the kayaker clubs and open up hundreds of miles of streams.  Let the kayakers volunteer t be the tresspasser and the coalition fund the lawyers.  There is the possibility of completely closing some though, I guess. I'd donate to such a coalition, no idea how many $millions it could cost or if every stream would have to go to the Supreme Court, but, it would end the ambiguity. 

[fishinwrench]

If you were to take a trespassing charge to court, there's a fairly decent chance that nobody would show proof of ownership.    

I don't think you can be fined or otherwise punished for trespassing, if it can't be proven WHOSE PROPERTY you were allegedly trespassing on.    Much of the land within the path of semi-frequent floods is not deeded, likely has decades worth of back taxes owed on it, and was probably assumed by adverse possession in the first place.  Therefore the county/state has no true authority to claim that you are breaking the law by merely being there. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

38 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

If you were to take a trespassing charge to court, there's a fairly decent chance that nobody would show proof of ownership.    

I don't think you can be fined or otherwise punished for trespassing, if it can't be proven WHOSE PROPERTY you were allegedly trespassing on.    Much of the land within the path of semi-frequent floods is not deeded, likely has decades worth of back taxes owed on it, and was probably assumed by adverse possession in the first place.  Therefore the county/state has no true authority to claim that you are breaking the law by merely being there. 

Let me remind you of your windyville prediction 😁

[fishinwrench]

1 minute ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Let me remind you of your windyville prediction 😁

Jus'sayin.   Someone can't just call the law because they saw you get in a car and drive off.....and then claim that you stole it from them, UNLESS the car is legally registered to them. 

[tjm]

43 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

If you were to take a trespassing charge to court, there's a fairly decent chance that nobody would show proof of ownership.    

I don't think you can be fined or otherwise punished for trespassing, if it can't be proven WHOSE PROPERTY you were allegedly trespassing on.    Much of the land within the path of semi-frequent floods is not deeded, likely has decades worth of back taxes owed on it, and was probably assumed by adverse possession in the first place.  Therefore the county/state has no true authority to claim that you are breaking the law by merely being there. 

That  is very unlikely, most small streams in Mo. have the land under them included with the land adjacent to them as well as any buildings on the parcel and taxes are for the entire holding, so the scenario you paint would be like you paying taxes on you kitchen but not on your living room or bed rooms.  The riverine land owner essentially pays more per usable acre than a ridge top landowner.  And the government often restricts all use of that underwater land, but they don't reduce the tax load when they restrict access to or use of it.

[tjm]

3 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

Jus'sayin.   Someone can't just call the law because they saw you get in a car and drive off.....and then claim that you stole it from them, UNLESS the car is legally registered to them. 

what if someone calls a tow truck for a car they don't own and have it hauled away? did the tow guy steal it or does the stranded fellow have to pay the tow fee and impound?

[snagged in outlet 3]

25 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

Jus'sayin.   Someone can't just call the law because they saw you get in a car and drive off.....and then claim that you stole it from them, UNLESS the car is legally registered to them. 

You gotta see the humor in my statement though right?😁

[ColdWaterFshr]

Regarding Vida slab - I wouldn't leave a car there.  I've witnessed firsthand the Mo Hwy Patrol issuing tickets to every single car parked there or anyone using the gravel bar.  Had the rollers lit up and everything

[fishinwrench]

3 minutes ago, ColdWaterFshr said:

Regarding Vida slab - I wouldn't leave a car there.  I've witnessed firsthand the Mo Hwy Patrol issuing tickets to every single car parked there or anyone using the gravel bar.  Had the rollers lit up and everything

What kinda tickets?   Parking tickets?  😂

[snagged in outlet 3]

Besides that this is an 11 year old thread resurrected from the ashes.   😀