Smallmouth Issues/msa Meeting

[Smalliebigs]

I'm not advocating strict C&R, although that's what I'd prefer. Obviously it's not realistic because we have to consider the irrational and shortsighted among us. I'm open to a slot or a 1 fish 18" or 20" per day. That's enough. There are dozens of other species that can be caught and eaten. We're talking about ONE species. It's not too much to ask. If they want to trash streams and slash tires, then local LE needs to be more present. The people we're talking about are ALWAYS resistant to new laws and regulations, even though it's usually in the interest of the greater good or even their own personal interest. They'll get over it eventually.

I admire your optimism, Tim. But the reality is some groups of people won't do what's right unless they're made to. As Gavin just mentioned, 70% of anglers who returned their surveys are in favor of tighter regs...that's as close to consensus as we need to be. I don't know how scientific that poll was, but it doesn't matter. There's always going to be a base of people who are too selfish to realize that if everyone kept fish like they did, there would be no fish left. They're like children, and even though they'll go down kicking and screaming, we adults have to do the right thing even though they don't like it. If they want to rape a body of water, let them take white bass or crappie or catfish or trout park fish or any other abundant species. There's lots of 'em and they grow fast. I'm sick of halfass laws that cater to the morons among us just because they'll throw a tantrum. How about doing what's right for the sake of doing what's right, and they can just deal with it? It's called progress, and it's a good thing, even if some people don't think so.

E, you're gonna make me cry......thank you!!!! Screw meat hunters and to hell with people who gig bass on our rivers, I am not a bit intimidated by tires beeing slashed or some rough house on the river.....bring it. It's time to do what's right.......too bad we don't have the man power or will to do it......oh well. When you see the crap first hand like cricket did on your favorite stream, it's like someone is banging your hot little girlfriend while you are out making money......It pisses you off.

[Outside Bend]

So the next time an MDC employee is stranded after a 14 hour day in the field because someone removed his valve stems, y'all are gonna drop everything and drive down from St. Louis to deliver four more, right?

Or the next time one of those rednecks decides he's gonna show MDC how he feels about smallies, and torches a thousand acres. You guys'll take off work to be part of the bucket brigade, correct?

Cause I'd like to make sure we have that in writing

It's easy to say "no big deal," when you're not the guy dealing with the fallout.

[eric1978]

So the next time an MDC employee is stranded after a 14 hour day in the field because someone removed his valve stems, y'all are gonna drop everything and drive down from St. Louis to deliver four more, right?

Or the next time one of those rednecks decides he's gonna show MDC how he feels about smallies, and torches a thousand acres. You guys'll take off work to be part of the bucket brigade, correct?

Cause I'd like to make sure we have that in writing

It's easy to say "no big deal," when you're not the guy dealing with the fallout.

OB, I almost always agree with you, but I think your rationale here is a little...irrational. We shouldn't change laws and regulations because we're afraid of retaliatory vandalism from locals? That's just ridiculous.

[Feathers and Fins]

I'm not advocating strict C&R, although that's what I'd prefer. Obviously it's not realistic because we have to consider the irrational and shortsighted among us. I'm open to a slot or a 1 fish 18" or 20" per day. That's enough. There are dozens of other species that can be caught and eaten. We're talking about ONE species. It's not too much to ask. If they want to trash streams and slash tires, then local LE needs to be more present. The people we're talking about are ALWAYS resistant to new laws and regulations, even though it's usually in the interest of the greater good or even their own personal interest. They'll get over it eventually. I admire your optimism

Eric, I have been down this road before with reptile conservation. People see a snake and think the only good snake is a dead snake, or a gopher tortoise is of no value so build a housing development over their habitat. Calling people “irrational and short sighted” might well fit for an individual’s personal definition but it creates enemies that could sway those people you think of as “irrational and short sighted”. You must look at those very people’s views as very rational from their point and work with them to gain your goal.

I understand you are passionate about preserving the smallmouth and I commend you for it. But the “It’s just one species” comment is a dangerous one I learned as people then say “ ok that species then the next then the next until all our rights are taken because of this groups wishes” I have seen that and heard that many times.

You need to turn the people and it may take time. You need to show them the value of protecting the species but while doing it show them the value of protecting the entire resource surrounding that species. Turn them from the “short sighted” to the long sighted and to conservationist. Instill in them the same passion for not just the one species but the entire ecosystem around the species. Then you will no longer have “irrational and short sighted” but other champions for conservation. It should and is not about one species but the entire ecosystem. That “ONE SPECIES” lives in an entire ecosystem. By teaching people about the species and the system and enlightening them to the harm being done to the species by way of the harm to the ecosystem and the harm removing that species can do to it, shocks people and wakes them up to become champions.

How they become champions is this way, they may already love the creek and the wilderness around it for is supplies them with fish to catch for fun and food. But when they hear the fish’s destruction or loss takes away from the rest of the picture they love, it turns to anger and a will to stop the destruction. Then you will have mass numbers there standing by you full of anger as they are losing something they love. Then you have the numbers to go to the politicians and bureaucrats to enact change.

[fishinwrench]

I don't believe I have ever seen a MDC agent get far enough away from his truck that he couldn't stop someone from vandalizing his state vehicle.

I have however, seen one tear up a truck to keep from walking 100 yards.

[eric1978]

I wish your way could work, F&F, I truly do. But sorry, it's pretty naive to think it will. There are many people (and we all know who they are) who will NEVER look at a resource through the lens of conservation. They see it as theirs for the taking, nothing more, nothing less. It's theirs. And they'll do what they want. Those city boys who catch fish and let them go are just stupid, and they ain't gonna tell me what to do with my river and my fish.

I think we've reached critical mass among sportsmen...it's time to enact change. Some people won't like it, but you can't please everyone. May as well err on the side of responsibility.

[Feathers and Fins]

But you are wrong Eric, I have seen it work, but it took time and a great deal of banging heads on walls and keyboards. Where once the Gopher tort was just that annoyance to builders now there are preserves for them. Where once there wholesale killing of Eastern Diamond back rattlers there is now protection, Where there use to be a Good Gator is a Dead Gator mentality there is limits and protection. Infact one of the greatest conservation stories in this Nations is that of the American Alligator. Or how about the Turkey or Whitetail deer. My friend there are many success stories.

You used the word "REDNECK" well they dont get much more redneck then Georgia, Florida, Loisiana and yet those Rednecks had the forsight to finally understand after some very open minded conservationist pointed it out to them without name calling or steriotyping them. Now look at those and many other species that are comming back. IT DOES WORK.

[Chief Grey Bear]

But they have people out enforcing the speed limit.

Yeah and a lot more of them. City, county, and patrol. But set your cruise next time you are running down the interstate on the speed limit and count how many cars pass you. Hell, I always set mine of 5 over and still get passed like I am running 5 under.

We have to think of the resource and all people who use it and their wants as well.. Its not a one sided game.

I tried that exact logic here about year or two ago. Didn't work then either.

[FishinCricket]

But you are wrong Eric, I have seen it work, but it took time and a great deal of banging heads on walls and keyboards. Where once the Gopher tort was just that annoyance to builders now there are preserves for them. Where once there wholesale killing of Eastern Diamond back rattlers there is now protection, Where there use to be a Good Gator is a Dead Gator mentality there is limits and protection. Infact one of the greatest conservation stories in this Nations is that of the American Alligator. Or how about the Turkey or Whitetail deer. My friend there are many success stories.

You used the word "REDNECK" well they dont get much more redneck then Georgia, Florida, Loisiana and yet those Rednecks had the forsight to finally understand after some very open minded conservationist pointed it out to them without name calling or steriotyping them. Now look at those and many other species that are comming back. IT DOES WORK.

This isn't a new discussion just because you weren't here 5 and ten years ago... The entire time that these other conservationist methods were being worked into legislation elsewhere us Midwest Catch and Release guys have been working our butts off at helping to educate our fellow angler... And STILL we have jake legs like the ones I encountered yesterday.. Those two guys seem genuinely distraught that they aren't catching big browns in that hole anymore.. They just can't seem to put two and two together, I guess...

Folks like Eric have banged their heads against this issue for many many years...

[Mitch f]

I don't believe I have ever seen a MDC agent get far enough away from his truck that he couldn't stop someone from vandalizing his state vehicle.

I have however, seen one tear up a truck to keep from walking 100 yards.