The Parable Of The Sheep

[ness]

That statement kinda looks like there may be a chance to reform him and offer him parole??

Every time this has happened since Columbine, it has became a media circus. All they talk about for weeks, then the trial comes around and it gets stirred again. Then the anniversary, it gets stirred again. They become famous, and in their sick little twisted brains, it is the justification and glory for them to see all of it. And yes, I feel it gives others ideas. If we whacked them on live TV and everyone watched that, it may deter a few of them.

Capital punishment works, but it should be enacted swiftly in cases where there is no reasonable doubt. Not 20 years later when most have forgot what they did to deserve it. Other cases, where there is some doubt, that is different. This one is cut and dry, carry out sentence immediately.

I'd agree this is a media circus, but everything is a media circus these days. Turn off the TV, or change it over to TV Land and watch some reruns.

I couldn't say if the motivation for this guy is glory, but maybe you're privy to some information the rest of us don't have.

As to the effectiveness of capital punishment -- you've got some statistics of crimes not committed to back that up?

[ness]

And ness, you said execution costs more than a lifetime of detainment? Well I've never heard that, but if it's true, while we're talking about hypotheticals and wish lists, one of the nutbag's AR-15 rounds couldn't be more than a buck, could it? I'd say a couple bucks at most, right in his orange head, should do the trick.

I was just eye-balling the cost thing. Let me get back to you on that.

[Quillback]

I've heard the same thing as Ness has, it's cheaper to toss someone in prison for life that execute them. Mainly because of the appeals process, the special care needed for someone of death row, etc., I'm not against the death sentence, especially for this specific case, but as a dollars and cents issue, it's a wash.

I would however like to see swift justice in this case. Make his trial a priority, give the inevitable appeals priority and get it done with. Execute the perp, or life sentence, it doesn't matter to me. Life without parole is a death sentence, just takes longer to get there.

[Tim Smith]

Good idea Tim.

I was bringing up the fact that the NCAA punishment on Penn State is probably more severe than what the Colorado Court will deal him.

Not really.

For coddling a pedophile and allowing him make the Penn State football locker room his...well that's just too gross to type...Penn State will have a slightly less impressive football legacy and pay a small percentage of their athletic budget in fines.

This guy, we don't know yet. The state of Colorado has made it clear they want him dead. There are also hints he's a brain come unhinged. It's probably inevitable that he will plead insanity. If that works, he'll be locked down for the rest of his life. Aside from Sandusky, no one at Penn State is looking at jail time.

I do not pretend to have solutions to these nutcases but cannot help to think that if more parents were to take control of their kids lives and more politicians were to understand government entitlements were part of the problem we would have a better country.

So you're saying this guy shot up a theater because he got an NIH grant?

We shoot rabid dogs.

Dogs, yes. People? Slightly different category.

I don't want to play the hypocrite here. I have been in a position where I've had to weigh my response to violence and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a very good Mennonite. But there does come a point when brains just don't work. I grew up with a mentally handicapped sibling. In that context you learn pretty quickly what physiology does to reason and order. If you're looking for moral equivalence, there's a big difference between executing someone who's hearing voices because their body has malfunctioned, and someone who has their faculties intact.

[ness]

Not really.

For coddling a pedophile and allowing him make the Penn State football locker room his...well that's just too gross to type...Penn State will have a slightly less impressive football legacy and pay a small percentage of their athletic budget in fines.

As long as I'm taking unpopular positions, I'll weigh in on that one too. I actually read a large part of the Freeh report, specifically the part about Paterno, and all the e-mail exhibits that were used to support their findings. Ain't nothing there. It's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out after the media circus leaves town.

[Feathers and Fins]

So you're saying this guy shot up a theater because he got an NIH grant?

No I was speaking in general not at this specific case. But directly t othis case, from what I understand so far he had no history of mental illness until this event and I think mental illness is a scapegoat defense for to many people. If he had no history prior to then it should not be allowed in this trial! I am tired of hearing everyone has a mental defect. And I grew up around mentally handicap people as well and sympathize with them. But I also have seen how smart they are and how much they can bring into others hearts. So i dont buy and wont buy the line of mental defense for people who had no history of it.

[Tim Smith]

So i dont buy and wont buy the line of mental defense for people who had no history of it.

My personal bet here is schizophrenia. It just pops up in people about this guy's age. You can go into his brain and look at the symptoms and there's no way to fake it. Maybe schizophrenics should be expected to make the voices in their head toe a moral line, but those voices are not something people make up. They hear them because they're sick.

But it's too early for all that. Time will tell.

[eric1978]

So i dont buy and wont buy the line of mental defense for people who had no history of it.

Didn't know we had a psychiatrist on this forum. Mental illness has to start somewhere...and 24 is a typical age to see the first signs of several illnesses, not just schizophrenia. Not that he still doesn't deserve the death penalty. And seriously, anyone who murders en masse is mentally ill. Period.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Yeah we don't usually get a trial and conviction by one person, especially one who administered an investigation agency, but not active for many years. It's another case where people who aren't in nor have never been in a situation want to judge it. Running a major college football team is more than a full time job and really doesn't allow time do jobs that fall under others responsibility. The NCAA hands down opinions which historically have punished the innocent.

As long as I'm taking unpopular positions, I'll weigh in on that one too. I actually read a large part of the Freeh report, specifically the part about Paterno, and all the e-mail exhibits that were used to support their findings. Ain't nothing there. It's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out after the media circus leaves town.

As far as Colorado goes, no sane person does what he does. I've always heard that a death penalty is more expensive due to appeals. I would think in this day and age the courts could speed up the process where there is overwhelming DNA evidence and make the penalty was it was intended to be, a deterrent.

Prison time is unlikely as much punishment as some believe. If you've ever been in the military you know you get used to 24 hour direction and restriction, prisoners here don't even have that, just restriction.

[Al Agnew]

Maybe this will sound rather Orwellian, but sometimes I think we have to ask ourselves what is best for society. Sure, we can lock this guy up for the rest of his life, either through finding him guilty or through the insanity plea. Or we can kill him. Does anybody think he could ever deserve to be let free? Maybe some do, if he proved he was over whatever mental illness caused him to do this horrific thing.

But...is he EVER going to be an asset to society? Doubtful. Very doubtful. From that viewpoint, killing him is no loss to society. Leaving him alive, and having society take care of him for the next 60 years, IS a drain on society.

Yes, there may be an element of "revenge" in killing him. But I think there is also a large element of justice. There is no doubt he did it. We should kill him dispassionately and with surety that it's the just thing to do.

As for it costing more to execute someone than to give them life without parole...that is true under present circumstances. It shouldn't be. There shouldn't be 20 years of court proceedings before someone is executed. At the same time, I fully acknowledge Ness's point that the justice system is not perfect and there's always a chance that an innocent person will be put to death. So we need to be very careful about giving out the death penalty, and do it only in cases where there is absolutely no doubt. But in a case where there IS no doubt, I have no trouble with it, and it should be done quickly and efficiently.