Meramec River Shooting

[ness]

Only problem with that thinking is that sometimes things escalate and what started as some yelling back and forth leads to one guy coming at another, and if a gun is in the equation someone can end up dead. If the guy wasn't carrying the gun in the first place being a respectful and responsible person he most likely just walks away, nothing escalates and everyone is home eating dinner with their families. If you are somewhere that requires you to have a gun to feel safe you probably shouldn't be there.

x2

[Rainbow McCloud]

Oh, and if it were my gravel bar, during the summer I would remember how peaceful and quiet it is all winter. If a big loud group stopped, I'd invite them to dinner and cook 'em burgers... Betcha next summer they bring steaks when they float by.

That's how I see it. Live and let live!

[Mitch f]

Alcohol is a strange thing, makes me mellow and want to hug everybody. I've seen others turn into Mr. Hyde after about 3-4 drinks. So in the engineering terms of my Asian teacher...The Wisk Weward Watio is not good!

[woodman]

I'm still very much afraid that any clearer definition will end up curtailing rights we already have on the streams. Your suggestion doesn't mention camping, and gravel bar camping is something I'd very much hate to see limited. Your idea of 50 feet on any bank to the water's edge included in the easement would make quite a bit of quite a few gravel bars off-limits, plus give the public a right to get up onto high banks and out into fields in many areas. I think the current definition of the easement is straightforward enough...it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a gravel bar and a high, wooded or cleared bank almost everywhere on these streams. I think what we need instead is a clear statement that the decision in Elder v Delcour IS the law of the land, but then you'd still have to go through every stream in the state and designate which ones are big enough to have that easement and which ones aren't...and THAT would in itself curtail some use of wadeable and marginally floatable streams in all probability.

In deference to landowners, however, you could also make a law that any gravel bar that is adjacent to a dwelling so that the dwelling is clearly visible from the gravel bar and is less than, say, 100 feet from the gravel bar, and both the gravel bar and the dwelling are owned by the same landowner, cannot be used by the public for camping, picnicking, or swimming.

You know life was much simpler 250 yrs. ago in this area... No one owned the land, it was free and so were the original occupants...But no..... We Europeans had a better idea! How's it working for ya! I for one am sick of it...the trash-pollution-lack of respect for the land and water ....it all ads up to = death.....

[dennis boatman]

I know I'm beating a dead horse, and this will be my last post on this topic: when people are acting like azzholes, and they come across another azzhole, the law doesn't freakin' matter. Right or wrong; Elder or Decour; navigable or not; high water mark; purple paint; keep out signs; easements; fishermen's rights; the government; how big Ed is ... nothing freakin' matters. What matters is how you act at that moment.

Crocker asks nicely and the cousins calm down and say ok, and Dart is back home Sunday night.

You with the bad azz mentality and the ones that feel the need to have guns for protection ARE the problem.

[Terrierman]

The ones with the bad azz mentality might be the problem, but a repsonsible, respectful, legal person carrying a gun for protection isn't the problem.

Crocker does not fall into the category (responsible, respectful, legal) by default simply because he fired a "warning shot" with bystanders around. That discredits him as someone that should be allowed to own a gun immediately. That is assuming the story is correct that he fired said warning shot(s). Either way I'm not defending him. The gun should have never been unholstered.

Safe gun owners aren't the problem, never have been

So. How do you tell the difference? Before the time comes I mean.

[1969Larson]

Here is a question for you:

If you come home one night to what should be your empty quiet house and see that there is someone in your home... You can see through the window that they are alone and are robbing you.

You have a handgun, know how to use it, and carry all the proper certifications for it. What do you do?

If your answer is anything besides get the heck out of there and call the authorities, then you have a problem... I've posed this question to a lot of gun carriers and you would be surprised at the answers. It is just property, cowboy.

[strangercreek]

So. How do you tell the difference? Before the time comes I mean.

Good question, but how do you ever tell a criminal from a non criminal?

I carry a weapon sometimes and I find myself being more cautious to avoid trouble. I get harassed constantly downtown KC, and I will go out of my way to avoid a drunk or crazy person even though I know I have a weapon.

[strangercreek]

Only problem with that thinking is that sometimes things escalate and what started as some yelling back and forth leads to one guy coming at another, and if a gun is in the equation someone can end up dead. If the guy wasn't carrying the gun in the first place being a respectful and responsible person he most likely just walks away, nothing escalates and everyone is home eating dinner with their families. If you are somewhere that requires you to have a gun to feel safe you probably shouldn't be there.

Good in theory, but some of us have to spend time in areas that aren't so safe, and late at night or early morning. I would protect myself with a gun to keep from getting beat up.

What if the guy with the rocks bashed crocker's head in and killed him? What would the argument be then? Alcohol has been known to cause deadly fist fights

[strangercreek]

Here is a question for you:

If you come home one night to what should be your empty quiet house and see that there is someone in your home... You can see through the window that they are alone and are robbing you.

You have a handgun, know how to use it, and carry all the proper certifications for it. What do you do?

If your answer is anything besides get the heck out of there and call the authorities, then you have a problem... I've posed this question to a lot of gun carriers and you would be surprised at the answers. It is just property, cowboy.

I agree with this 100%. I sometimes walk between my office and the convenience store two blocks over, and many times get harassed by a drunk or two in the alley. Even though I am carrying, I will go clear around the opposite block just to avoid them on my way back. Like I said, responsible, respectful, and legal gun owners aren't the problem. If I was a lunatic I would have a hand on my weapon just waiting for some action....no Tackleberry here