Meramec River Shooting

[hank franklin]

The rental car analogy doesn't work. Rental cars can go anywhere. Canoes can only go downstream. A canoe outfitter is more like a tour operator. You get the canoe plus the river. Have fun. All the stops on the tour come with the canoe rental. It's the same river every time.

As I've said, my personal preference is for no change. However, the conflicts between landowners and floaters are growing and getting more hostile. A guy was killed. Terrible.

I do believe the courts and / or law will at some point address this. Elder vs. Decour is almost 60 years old. My only point is to consider what might happen. I say again that I believe and HOPE that right of passage will survive for my children and their children. And I do think this will happen. It's hard to imagine the great Ozark streams being ruled off-limits to the floater.

However I do feel the commercial operator may be called into question. I don't see how the operator's right to use of the river trumps the right of the private landowner to use his property. It is a real and growing conflict. If the effect of the commercial operator is diminution of value of the private land, I feel the operator could be made to pay. If I was a damaged landowner (which I'm not ) I feel I'd have a pretty good case.

What is the solution? I really don't know and don't care to get into it. I'm only trying to ponder the future of "right of passage." It is a CHERISHED Ozark concept. I hope it doesn't go away. I feel I as a private individual can assert that I have "right of passage." I don't think the commercial operator can make the same argument, that his operation, collectively, has right to use the stream and adjacent riverbanks with no consideration whatsoever to the adjacent landowners.

[Old plug]

Fishskayer you do have a point it is a pin but the water patrol catches drug dealers and everything else out there. I have a friend who was a Lt Col in the water patrol. There is just no end to some of the stuff goes on in the rivers and lakes.

[Al Agnew]

I really do not like the idea of more law enforcement on the rivers, more patrol less privacy IMO there is nothing more annoying then getting half way through a shoal and being forced into the bank by a water patrol jetboat just to check licenses and poke around in a cooler. Unless a patrol boat was at that gravel bar i don't think things would have went any different.

Well, basically what you're saying then is you want things to be as wide open as they are now. There is no other way that I can see to curtail some of the bad behavior that is making these rivers a place that sensible people don't want to visit on weekends. It may not have prevented this tragedy, but I think we're at the point where something has to be done.

[jdmidwest]

Well, basically what you're saying then is you want things to be as wide open as they are now. There is no other way that I can see to curtail some of the bad behavior that is making these rivers a place that sensible people don't want to visit on weekends. It may not have prevented this tragedy, but I think we're at the point where something has to be done.

Al, people just need to get back to reality. They need to respect others and have some morals and common sense. You can beat a horse all you want, but it will not fix the problems. It has to realize what the problem is and change it itself.

[Fishslayer88]

This is an isolated incident rarely do people get shot on the river and there is no law saying people can't be rude there are plenty of police in city's wich is where ( in my experiences ) you will find some of the most obnoxious people on earth.

[Hog Wally]

I have never been checked by water patrol in twenty plus years. Only seen em twice on meramec by me. They used to hide in woods along my creek when I was at the height of my trespasser problems. Since I've been on this forum I have started talking to more fisherman on the water and have found that very few are locals. I think it's cool that people will travel to come fish this river in my back yard. Yeah it's (my) back yard! It's mine. I own my back yard. I paid for it. If I don't want you in my back yard I have that right but I can't see dying over it. Or killing someone over it. I guess I'm saying I can't side with either party. Both knuckleheads!

[Mitch f]

A little bit of diplomacy on both sides goes a long way...Dart doesn't get killed and Crocker doesn't spend the next 5-10 years in jail.

I have to wonder what that Crocker was doing walking around in the woods on a busy Saturday on the river? Making sure no one would mess with his gravel bar? Sounds like he was laying and waiting for someone to screw up so he could run them off.

[Quillback]

A little bit of diplomacy on both sides goes a long way...Dart doesn't get killed and Crocker doesn't spend the next 5-10 years in jail.

I have to wonder what that Crocker was doing walking around in the woods on a busy Saturday on the river? Making sure no one would mess with his gravel bar? Sounds like he was laying and waiting for someone to screw up so he could run them off.

Could have been methed up, methed up people do inexplicable stuff.

[Al Agnew]

Al, people just need to get back to reality. They need to respect others and have some morals and common sense. You can beat a horse all you want, but it will not fix the problems. It has to realize what the problem is and change it itself.

Wishful thinking. The reality is that people aren't going to do that on their own any time soon. Once again, you work with what you have, not what you wish you had. And deterrence does work. Not perfectly, but it works. If people who are inclined to do illegal things think they have to look over their shoulder a little more, they might not do them. You can't change human nature but you can change human behavior to some extent. There was a time when the Meramec was really getting out of control as far as drug use and nudity was concerned, but at that time the Crawford County sheriff's department saw the problem and spent a few Saturdays making a bunch of arrests, and things settled down considerably. This was back in the 1980s, if I remember correctly. A lot of river dorks were unhappy about it but the local people were quite happy.

[Flyguide7]

One guy loses his life, the other guy probably loses everything he worked for (after he pays his legal fees). Very sad. I used to carry a 45 for self defense, because I spent a lot of time on the road. One day I thought about what would likely happen if I ever had to use it. Then I put the gun back in the safe. All machismo aside, I would rather give a guy my wallet, than some lawyer a half million to defend me. If he shoots me at least my family will have what I have worked for all my life.

If someone comes in the house well that's another story.