Trip Report - 3/29 And 3/30 And An Armed Confrontation With Landowners

[KCRIVERRAT]

it is pretty common sense. All that a judge has to say is that a gravel bar is open to the public. It is not rocket science. As for as the bass tourney guys, it will happen some day. One of the 30% real unemployed will need a couple of thousand to make it through the month.....or maybe that is too extreme, they will just go to their live boxe

Here's hoping the judge in your county has commen sense. Along with the sheriff. If the tourney guys go that route brother, they're done. I for one don't think it'll come to that but there are nutheads everywhere as we all know nowadays.

[jdmidwest]

Taking the landowners side, he saw somethng happening on his property and went to investigate. Maybe he has had run ins with some undesireables in the past. Who knows and it turned out fine, nobody hurt. Crooked creek is small enough that I am sure it does not see many overnight campers.

I really thought Arkansas was one of the states that allows you to own the stream bank and refuse anyone out of the water. As long as you stay in the water, you are not trespassing. I know it happens all of the time on the Spring River and I have never pushed it on posted ground. Even campground owners post that the campground is for their guests, all others are trespassing.

The only exceptions would be Corps of Engineer flood area, State Forest and Riverways, and other public areas.

[fishinwrench]

Interesting point, and one I hadn't thought about....and almost hate to mention it out loud:

If floaters are allowed to camp below the high water mark on navigable waterways then what could a campground owner do about floaters (accessing from above) camping on their place for free?

Not that I'd ever want to, but couldn't you if you did want to?

The folks at NRO, HO-HUM, Gasconade Hills, Sunburst, ROLF, ect. would have a freakin' fit if folks did that. But what could they do about it?

[Justin Spencer]

I have had people do it, don't really care unless they use my bathrooms, my main campground is above the highwater mark so as long as they don't come up to the campground (unless they are buying something at the store) there's not much I can do. If they are down there using drugs or bugging my campers then I will get smokey involved.

[joeD]

Hoglaw: Thank you for your answer. Obviously, there is plenty left unsaid. In fact, maybe you should have left it unsaid, feeling the way you do about the incident. Seems to me that you were not wholly innocent.

However, I do think it is your duty to reveal the whereabouts of this confrontation. This is not an attempt to place blame, but to inform others who frequent CC about possible dangers.

I love CC and have floated and gravel bar camped (not so much lately ) many times. I have not had any problems, so, this incident is quite worrisome to me.

Again, no blame or fault is implied by me. Just facts.

Me me me me me. Yes, I know, I am quite selfish.

[fishinwrench]

Shouldn't be hard to figure out, Joe. It's gonna be a fairly clean, girl friendly gravel bar that is a couple hours float from a reasonably popular access that has a couple semi-tricky bends below it. There is going to be a road/trail close to the gravel bar, and possibly a house/barn/building within sight of it.

I've never wet a shoe in CC but it's likely that not too many spots meet that criteria, so you could probably narrow it down pretty close using Google Earth and some familiarity with the watershed.

[Jerry Rapp]

Ordinary High Water is usually defined as the high bank elevation. In other words, when the stream/river is running bank full, that is Ordinary High Water.

[hoglaw]

I really didn't put this up here to for folks to place blame on me. My hands are clean. I have good reasons for not wanting to share a landowners name on here that I've gone through the trouble and effort to figure out, as I'm not here to throw stones. You're right Joe, I do regret having posted this in the first place. I thought it was a story worth sharing, but like so many other posters on here I get bashed for telling the story I want to tell but not the information you want to hear. I was unarmed, not drunk, not trashing anything, keeping to myself on a gravel bar (below the high water mark) that was somewhere between Harmon and Payatt. I'm sorry I don't have the GPS coordinates. The landowner owns about five miles of both sides as best I can tell below the Harmon bridge. So if you want to avoid confrontation with him, that's the area to stay away from.

I took the landowners side that night and every time after it in my mind. If I were in his shoes I'd have been armed too. I would have handled the situation very differently, but I don't blame him for having a gun. I have no desire to get on a soapbox or turn this into something bigger than it is. My intent is purely to make sure I can camp there in the future. So my first approach has been the adult discussion route.

I don't know why I felt the need to share it. I thought it was an interesting and scary experience, and I consider some of the folks on this board to be friends that I like to share things like that. Obviously it was silly for me to attribute my good experiences to every member here.

You and Wrench can kiss my butt for assuming my fault or placing blame on me simply because I want to handle conflict with individuals privately before disclosing their identifying information. For the most part I've enjoyed your posts and your sense of humor. I guess that's just because I haven't been the butt of it before. You are both well aware that you are ignorant of some of the facts as evidenced by your repeated prods to try to get me to share more information, yet you assume that the absence of that information means I have something to hide or that I have some share of the blame in this incident.

. It's one thing to disagree and have an intelligent discussion online. It's another to assume the fault of people you don't even know. You argue for the sake of arguing, and stir the pot just to see yourself type. I've been through plenty of women like you. They're great for a good time and a few laughs, but pretty difficult to be around for any length of time.

I expected as much from you Joe. I'm surpirsed Wrench jumped on your bandwagon too

[Old plug]

squat on it wrench. i do not know exctly how it works but a guy here in my subdivision obtined several lots in here like that. You do not have to physically have a presents on it. I think the law say something in missouri about utilizing it. In other word store a old boat old boat trailer on it. But I was told it was a iffy business. A simpler way would be to by it for unpaid taxes it. again be careful. Some guy tried to pay the unpaid taxes on our boat ramp a few years ago with a view to selling it back to us. Trouble is we have a deeded right to it till dooms day. No matter who or what legally holds the ground it is on. And that includes Morgan county. Nobody can touch it for any reason. Morgan County is stuck with several such pieces or ground.

[fishinwrench]

I wasn't insinuating anything. I was attempting to add food for thought. And I'm not "jumping on anyones bandwagon" I was basically telling JOE to shut up and figure it out for HIMSELF if he was "so concerned for his own safety".

Kiss MY butt!

I hate that every few times I feed off into a conversation that intetests me on here that someone takes something I say the wrong way.

Apparently my typing skills are doing bad things to my reputation around here. My apologies FOR REAL! I've jabbed a few guys mostly in fun, in the past, but there's a growing percentage of folks on here that I can tell have me pegged for a Full Time trouble maker.

That is NOT the case. But just for the sake of maintaining what integrity I do have I think it's best if I just reduce myself to lurker status here and only respond when I'm directly addressed.

Again.....Sorry.