This Is Very Sad

[Justin Spencer]

I think most of us were old enough to have that since of American Pride in us, my fear is the kids today do not have it nor the determination that goes with it. Jimmy this is not a subject to me that should be about the political parties to me its one about "WE" that encompasses all Americans, If we could hold that since of right and pride in country and our fellow countrymen I truly know we would be a better country.

I agree Scott. America's pride has grown into a thought that since we are the USA we are automatically better than every other country, and our complacency is starting to catch up to us as other countries are now surpassing us in many areas. I am thankful I live here and wouldn't change that, but as a country we need to step up (starting with our govt.) and become world leaders in other areas besides our military.

I understand that kids should not have their chops busted by not knowing about certain events. I get that. However we shouldn't forget about 9/11 so quickly.

We should never forget about this, but it means nothing to my kids who weren't alive at the time (no matter how you explain it's importance), and as big a deal as it was to us, it will never mean much to those who didn't experience it. With today's media coverage I'm sure kids just view it as another tragedy, in a world full of bombings, wife beatings, and riots.

[rps]

In another place I posted the following about my day at school on 9/11. It seems appropriate here and heads this thread away from confrontation, so forgive me for "re-posting."

"9/11 is an interesting day to teach as a middle school social studies teacher. My 7th grade was not alive that day. My 8th grade was way too young to remember. NO visceral connection whatever, but they have had 9/11 lessons nearly every year. Some have seen one of the movies.
I started by asking what they know and found partial knowledge tinged with conspiracy. I had to ground and center them with a condensed version of reality - men who had chauffeurs did not come home, nor dishwashers at the posh restaurant, nor secretaries from the law firms. Fire chiefs who had to decide to send men to a task that meant some would die, and fire fighters who went knowing they might.
Father Judge, and how haunting similar his posture in the Pulitzer prize winning photo is to Michelangelo's Pieta.
I was trying to make sure they understood that "historic" events are not dry things in books but thousands of personal stories all happening at once.
We had a good day but we shared some tears."

[fishinwrench]

I agree Scott. America's pride has grown into a thought that since we are the USA we are automatically better than every other country, and our complacency is starting to catch up to us as other countries are now surpassing us in many areas. I am thankful I live here and wouldn't change that, but as a country we need to step up (starting with our govt.) and become world leaders in other areas besides our military.

We should never forget about this, but it means nothing to my kids who weren't alive at the time (no matter how you explain it's importance), and as big a deal as it was to us, it will never mean much to those who didn't experience it. With today's media coverage I'm sure kids just view it as another tragedy, in a world full of bombings, wife beatings, and riots.

Reminds....

http://youtu.be/4MYjyLg8bbo

[Justin Spencer]

In another place I posted the following about my day at school on 9/11. It seems appropriate here and heads this thread away from confrontation, so forgive me for "re-posting."

"9/11 is an interesting day to teach as a middle school social studies teacher. My 7th grade was not alive that day. My 8th grade was way too young to remember. NO visceral connection whatever, but they have had 9/11 lessons nearly every year. Some have seen one of the movies.

I started by asking what they know and found partial knowledge tinged with conspiracy. I had to ground and center them with a condensed version of reality - men who had chauffeurs did not come home, nor dishwashers at the posh restaurant, nor secretaries from the law firms. Fire chiefs who had to decide to send men to a task that meant some would die, and fire fighters who went knowing they might.

Father Judge, and how haunting similar his posture in the Pulitzer prize winning photo is to Michelangelo's Pieta.

I was trying to make sure they understood that "historic" events are not dry things in books but thousands of personal stories all happening at once.

We had a good day but we shared some tears."

Love that approach, I'm sure learning about it that way makes it much more real to each student. Thank you for doing your part in upbringing of our kids!

[Old plug]

I was not going to post on this thing anymore but. seen this.

There is a lot more to patriotism than just talking about it. I would venture to say at least 90% of you have never faced real poverty or discrimination in any form. Those people that try to make a difference in these situations are true patriots because that is where our problems are in this country.

[riverhyker]

I am a Viet Nam Era Vet....My sons questioned me one day.....my response was this....MY JOB is to protect my house, let's expand this, in order to do so I have to protect my shores AND any threats to those shores....THAT IS MY J.O.B. They couldn't understand that.....okay, Sooooo, if someone knocks on you'e door, you answer, and get busted in on....It is you're neighbor. Magnify that by the parameters of the world....Now You have thousands against our family..breaking into our house (USA), I TAUGHT YOU to care...for it to matter.....

[riverhyker]

We talk about what our chldren don't know? What about what we aren't teaching our kids! History is not a Mistorhy. My Grandmother kept a playroom with all of the people that created, that made me understand that because you're faith was different...it didn't make you wrong, My....okay...this is not the forum for that.

But, really where we learn....from our parents/grandparents......what do we teach our children/grandchildren? Now we complain....really sad!

[drew03cmc]

I am a Viet Nam Era Vet....My sons questioned me one day.....my response was this....MY JOB is to protect my house, let's expand this, in order to do so I have to protect my shores AND any threats to those shores....THAT IS MY J.O.B. They couldn't understand that.....okay, Sooooo, if someone knocks on you'e door, you answer, and get busted in on....It is you're neighbor. Magnify that by the parameters of the world....Now You have thousands against our family..breaking into our house (USA), I TAUGHT YOU to care...for it to matter.....

You are speaking of perceived threats to our shores, not actual threats like Japan in the 40s or the al Qaeda or Taliban folks on 9/11. There's no reason to preemptively strike other nations who are posing no threat to our shores. I would be all for closing a large percentage of our foreign bases and bringing troops home. We are spread too thin and still occupy the nations we have had action against. This would also save us billions each year. If kids these days don't know the significance of 9/11, educate, do not ridicule. It isn't your job to look down on kids who don't comprehend the importance of that day.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I'm surprised and amazed that it took so long for Vietnam to enter the debate. If it didn't change patriiotism then I don't know what did! The uprising that was badly mishandled by authorities and turned into a sport for many who turned it toward those who obeyed the law, whether they agreed with it or not, was somewhat of a solvent for patriotism. It meant it was what ever you wanted it be without any standards.

Vietnam was different, it was one of the first times we we tried to help a government overwelm an internal philosophy threat with are own militray. We saw failure in Cuba using stand ins, but in Vietnam we had the majority and the military to work with.there were lots of errors. Many of them were repeated in the Middle East.

All of these have simply left our patriotism on hold where it will likely stay until we feel a threat as group, a large group. For the most part we don't really know when to apply it and maybe that's best because when it's spontaeous it holds more power.

As far as the 9/11 conspiracy, frogs wouldn't bump their butt if the had wings.

[Old plug]

Wayne I agree that VN had a negative effect. But there is a lot more to it than that. A awful lot of people feel de franchised in this nation for a multitude of. reasons.