What's Brewing?

[ness]

 We spent a couple weeks in Ireland this summer. We ate a lot of excellent food and also drank a lot of different whiskeys, beers and ciders. I've always heard, including from @Johnsfolly here, that the Guinness is much better over there and it is absolutely true.

Another beer we enjoyed was Smithwick's, which is an Irish red ale. I've had it in bottles here, but from the tap there is really no comparison. (By the way, the Irish don't do the "th" sound, it's just "t", and somehow they drop the W, so it is "Smittix" over there).

Our favorite whiskey was Teeling. I've had it here a couple times and liked it. We were in Dublin for a couple days at the start of our vacation and one of the locals we met recommended the Teeling tour. It was really a very well done tour. Irish whiskey is triple distilled, as the guy told us, 'second time to be sure, and the third to be really sure.'  

 

At the end I got four samples, and my non-whiskey-drinking wife got a cocktail that was made with raspberry tea, ginger liqueur, Aperol, lemon juice and Teeling. My wife loved the cocktail. I tried it and it was quite good. 

One thing that was really an eye-opener for us were the ciders over there. They are so much better than the light, thin, sweet hard ciders over here. They're more crisp, full-bodied and retain more apple flavor. Many of them come in a dry or semi-dry version, and we always went for those. My favorite was MacIvor's, but Bulmer's, Cronin and Stonewell Dry were all good too. If you want to find something close here, try Magner's, which is the import version of Bulmer's.

I've made hard cider a number of times with good results, but they've been without a lot of character or body. My last batch was really good, but much like a very light-bodied white wine. So I struck out and tried to learn what makes the Irish ciders so much better. Not surprisingly, a large part of it is in the apples that they use, which is a mixture of sweet (eating), sharp (acidic, like Granny Smith) and bitter apples which are high in tannin. I've read bitters are also called 'spitters' because they are so tannic you can't eat them. A lot of times the bottles will say how many varieties of apples are used. I believe Bulmer's said 10 and another said 17. 

I'm not going to be able to start from apples, and probably couldn't find the right ones anyway. The apple ciders available from the store or from local orchards are typically the sweet with some sharp added in. To get more like the Irish ciders I'll have to supplement acid and tannin. I've done that in my last few batches, but after researching I know I need to boost it even more to get closer. Another thing I've done in past batches is add sugar to slightly boost the alcohol content. But, I've learned that can come at the expense of apple flavor. MacIvor's above is only 4.5%. So I won't add sugar.

Another factor in flavor is the type of yeast used. Some ferment out very dry, some metabolize away acid, some produce fruity esters, and some strip out fruit flavor. I decided I'd focus on yeast strains that will give me the best chance of retaining fruitiness while also fermenting out fairly dry.

So today I started three 1 gallon batches. I used Louisburg Cider again, no added sugar and supplemented acid and tannin to higher levels than before. I used three different yeasts for this test, but all other variables are the same. On the off chance anyone gives a hoot, I'm going with Safale S-04, Nottingham and Cote des Blancs strains. I'm hoping I can get something better, but I'm sure it won't match the Irish Ciders. 

My intention is to do these identically except for the yeast, then taste after they're done. At that point I can determine which yeast works best. I can also further adjust acid, tannin and sweetening if desired. 

[BilletHead]

2 hours ago, ness said:

 We spent a couple weeks in Ireland this summer. We ate a lot of excellent food and also drank a lot of different whiskeys, beers and ciders. I've always heard, including from @Johnsfolly here, that the Guinness is much better over there and it is absolutely true.

Another beer we enjoyed was Smithwick's, which is an Irish red ale. I've had it in bottles here, but from the tap there is really no comparison. (By the way, the Irish don't do the "th" sound, it's just "t", so it is "Smittix" over there).

Our favorite whiskey was Teeling. I've had it here a couple times here and liked it. We were in Dublin for a couple days at the start of our vacation and one of the locals we met recommended the Teeling tour. It was really very well done tour. Irish whiskey is triple distilled, as the guy told us, 'First to be sure, second to be really sure, and third to be really, really sure.'  

 

At the end I got four samples, and my non-whiskey-drinking wife got a cocktail that was made with raspberry tea, ginger liquor, Aperol, lemon juice and Teeling. My wife loved the cocktail. I tried it and it was quite good. 

One thing that was really an eye-opener for us were the ciders over there. They are so much better than the light, thin, sweet hard ciders over here. They're more crisp, full-bodied and retain more apple flavor. Many of them come in a dry or semi-dry version, and we always went for those. My favorite was MacIvor's, but Bulmer's, Cronin and Stonewell Dry were all good too. If you want to find something close here, try Magner's, which is the import version of Bulmer's.

I've made hard cider a number of times with good results, but they've been without a lot of character or body. My last batch was really good, but much like a light-bodied white wine. So I struck out and tried to learn what makes the Irish ciders so much better. Not surprisingly, a large part of it is in the apples that they use, which is a mixture of sweet (eating), sharp (acidic, like Granny Smith) and bitter apples which are high in tannin. I've read bitters are also called 'spitters' because they are so tannic you can't eat them. A lot of times the bottles will say how many varieties of apples are used. I believe Bulmer's said 10 and another said 17. 

I'm not going to be able to start from apples, and probably couldn't find the right ones anyway. The apple ciders available from the store or from local orchards are typically the sweet with some sharp added in. To get more like the Irish ciders I'll have to supplement acid and tannin. I've done that in my last few batches, but after researching I know I need to boost it even more to get closer. Another thing I've done in past batches is add sugar to slightly boost the alcohol content. But, I've learned that can come at the expense of apple flavor. MacIvor's above is only 4.5%. So I won't add sugar.

Another factor in flavor is the type of yeast used. Some ferment out very dry, some metabolize away acid, some produce fruity esters, and some strip out fruit flavor. I decided I'd focus on yeast strains that will give me the best chance of retaining fruitiness while also fermenting out fairly dry.

So today I started three 1 gallon batches. I used Louisburg Cider again, no added sugar and supplemented acid and tannin to higher levels than before. I used three different yeasts for this test, but all other variables are the same. On the off chance anyone gives a hoot, I'm going with Safale S-04, Nottingham and Cote Des Blancs strains. I'm hoping I can get something better, but I'm sure it won't match the Irish Ciders. 

My intension is to do these identically except for the yeast, then taste after they're done. At that point I can determine which yeast works best. I can also further adjust acid, tannin and sweetening if desired. 

                         YEA!

        

[ness]

46 minutes ago, BilletHead said:

                         YEA!

        

BTW that Post-It note is still hanging on! 😀

 

 

[BilletHead]

2 hours ago, ness said:

BTW that Post-It note is still hanging on! 😀

 

 

           Fantasamo! Getting happy with age. 

[ColdWaterFshr]

8 hours ago, ness said:

 We spent a couple weeks in Ireland this summer. We ate a lot of excellent food and also drank a lot of different whiskeys, beers and ciders. I've always heard, including from @Johnsfolly here, that the Guinness is much better over there and it is absolutely true.

Another beer we enjoyed was Smithwick's, which is an Irish red ale. I've had it in bottles here, but from the tap there is really no comparison. (By the way, the Irish don't do the "th" sound, it's just "t", so it is "Smittix" over there).

Our favorite whiskey was Teeling. I've had it here a couple times and liked it. We were in Dublin for a couple days at the start of our vacation and one of the locals we met recommended the Teeling tour. It was really a very well done tour. Irish whiskey is triple distilled, as the guy told us, 'First to be sure, second to be really sure, and third to be really, really sure.'  

 

At the end I got four samples, and my non-whiskey-drinking wife got a cocktail that was made with raspberry tea, ginger liqueur, Aperol, lemon juice and Teeling. My wife loved the cocktail. I tried it and it was quite good. 

One thing that was really an eye-opener for us were the ciders over there. They are so much better than the light, thin, sweet hard ciders over here. They're more crisp, full-bodied and retain more apple flavor. Many of them come in a dry or semi-dry version, and we always went for those. My favorite was MacIvor's, but Bulmer's, Cronin and Stonewell Dry were all good too. If you want to find something close here, try Magner's, which is the import version of Bulmer's.

I've made hard cider a number of times with good results, but they've been without a lot of character or body. My last batch was really good, but much like a very light-bodied white wine. So I struck out and tried to learn what makes the Irish ciders so much better. Not surprisingly, a large part of it is in the apples that they use, which is a mixture of sweet (eating), sharp (acidic, like Granny Smith) and bitter apples which are high in tannin. I've read bitters are also called 'spitters' because they are so tannic you can't eat them. A lot of times the bottles will say how many varieties of apples are used. I believe Bulmer's said 10 and another said 17. 

I'm not going to be able to start from apples, and probably couldn't find the right ones anyway. The apple ciders available from the store or from local orchards are typically the sweet with some sharp added in. To get more like the Irish ciders I'll have to supplement acid and tannin. I've done that in my last few batches, but after researching I know I need to boost it even more to get closer. Another thing I've done in past batches is add sugar to slightly boost the alcohol content. But, I've learned that can come at the expense of apple flavor. MacIvor's above is only 4.5%. So I won't add sugar.

Another factor in flavor is the type of yeast used. Some ferment out very dry, some metabolize away acid, some produce fruity esters, and some strip out fruit flavor. I decided I'd focus on yeast strains that will give me the best chance of retaining fruitiness while also fermenting out fairly dry.

So today I started three 1 gallon batches. I used Louisburg Cider again, no added sugar and supplemented acid and tannin to higher levels than before. I used three different yeasts for this test, but all other variables are the same. On the off chance anyone gives a hoot, I'm going with Safale S-04, Nottingham and Cote des Blancs strains. I'm hoping I can get something better, but I'm sure it won't match the Irish Ciders. 

My intension is to do these identically except for the yeast, then taste after they're done. At that point I can determine which yeast works best. I can also further adjust acid, tannin and sweetening if desired. 

Love this report, Ness!  I was a bit underwhelmed by the Guiness brewery tour, but as tourist traps go, there are a lot worse places you can be . . .

I'm in the mood to brew again, though ciders are not my fancy.  The belgian styles and particularly the Saison farmhouse ales have my curiosity.  

In my experience, all other things being equal, the choice of yeast you pitch GREATLY affects the beer more than any other ingredient choice or combination of hops, malt, barley, or even temperature of fermentation, etc. A wort chiller was my last big game changer, but nothing compared to yeast choice, and growing a good culture for pitch.

As a fan of Tank 7 and Delirium Tremens, and Point Labadie Saison and others of that style, . . I'm looking to brew a high gravity farmhouse ale with I think the Pac-Man (1764- Wyeast) ale yeast. 

Hope your ciders turn out well.  I'm sure they will all each be great with a unique flavor profile.

[ness]

1 hour ago, ColdWaterFshr said:

Love this report, Ness!  I was a bit underwhelmed by the Guiness brewery tour, but as tourist traps go, there are a lot worse places you can be . . .

I'm in the mood to brew again, though ciders are not my fancy.  The belgian styles and particularly the Saison farmhouse ales have my curiosity.  

In my experience, all other things being equal, the choice of yeast you pitch GREATLY affects the beer more than any other ingredient choice or combination of hops, malt, barley, or even temperature of fermentation, etc. A wort chiller was my last big game changer, but nothing compared to yeast choice, and growing a good culture for pitch.

As a fan of Tank 7 and Delirium Tremens, and Point Labadie Saison and others of that style, . . I'm looking to brew a high gravity farmhouse ale with I think the Pac-Man (1764- Wyeast) ale yeast. 

Hope your ciders turn out well.  I'm sure they will all each be great with a unique flavor profile.

Thanks. We’ll see on the ciders.

Not a fan of Tank 7 or the saisons in general. Give me malt and keep it light on the hop.

That said…I do recall a home brew you brought on one of our outings that was excellent. Pretty heavy on the dry hop and very grapefruit-y. 

Agree, Storehouse was touristy and underwhelming. Crowded, and the self-guided tour wasn’t anything special. We had better Guinness and stew elsewhere. Glad we only invested a couple hours there. 

[ColdWaterFshr]

11 hours ago, ness said:

That said…I do recall a home brew you brought on one of our outings that was excellent. Pretty heavy on the dry hop and very grapefruit-y. 

It was probably this one . . . my dry-hopped APA.

 

[ness]

20 minutes ago, ColdWaterFshr said:

It was probably this one . . . my dry-hopped APA.

 

I bet that's the one. We did the wild trout trip April 2008. Mill, Little Piney, Spring, Current. 

[ColdWaterFshr]

15 years ago . . . thats hard to believe.  Fun trip.

[ness]

2 hours ago, ColdWaterFshr said:

It was probably this one . . . my dry-hopped APA.

So, have you advanced to all grain brewing? 

There were three of us that got into brewing in the late 80's early 90's. We were just starting to figure out all grain brewing when kids came along and we shut it all down. One of my buddies has picked it back up and he's produced some excellent beers. He also has bought California grapes and done the full blown crush/press/ferment and age in oak thing and it turned out very well. I've been toying with the idea of doing that next year.