Updated info on new smallmouth special regs areas

[Dan Kreher]

I'm not suggesting that the MSA proposed this. I just know that some will never be happy until that happens, which is going to be never. I of course have some issues with the "catch my limit" crowd, but I'm starting to become almost equally troubled with the extremes on the other side. Not the MSA folks, but the "nothing will be good enough until no one can keep a smallmouth, ever" crowd. It's a fine ideal, as it goes. Most of us would never keep one ourselves, and it baffles the mind to imagine someone else doing so. But it's also totally unrealistic, and makes smallmouth management way harder to discuss than it should be. There is a lot of middle ground that can't even be broached by those too far on one side or the other.

I like the last sentence of your post. I think it's totally fair to believe that this could go further. I am thinking of several river sections that I wish had been included, and I don't doubt there are a whole host. I think recognizing progress is important while still continuing to work to expand it.

Agreed. Just wanted to make that clear for anyone else who might not be as familiar with what MSA had proposed to MDC back in 2010. Yes, MSA intends to support MDC on this while possibly pushing for more on the Meramec as noted previously. Frankly, strong localized support for extending Meramec regs along with Huzzah/Courtois will probably go much further than what MSA guys who mostly live in urban areas want to happen. CWC -- rally your Meramec angling brethren when the time comes.

[Al Agnew]

Yes, just to be clear, I am not for total catch and release or a statewide 1 fish limit, either. I've always been of the mind that harvest is both acceptable and in many cases it helps. But I've also always been of the mind that the big fish are what really need protection, which is why I've wanted slot limits. I'd be ecstatic with something like 3 fish under 14 inches and one fish over 20 inches in some of the stretches that have the greatest potential to grow big fish. And I'd be just as ecstatic with a 4 fish, 14 inch limit statewide. And I would make no distinction between smallmouth and largemouth with these regs, because I think big largemouth on Ozark streams are undervalued. I'd like unlimited keeping of spotted bass throughout the Meramec river system and Gasconade river system, and some sort of less restrictive regs on spots in the James and Bryant Creek, simplly because spotted bass are far more common on these streams than they were historically, due to continual migration into them from Table Rock and Norfork reservoirs.

[Gavin]

I'd go with a slot statewide. A 15" smallmouth is nice but no big deal. 2llb bass? The survey did NOT ask the question about anglers opinions of a big smallmouth. Most said 15" was nice, did not say outstanding. Wish there where more 15". Nice to catch but no BFD. Harvest is focused at the top now and with a 1/15 we will have more of same same. Sick of the MDC's deregulate because it makes it easier for us initiative. They pawn it of as simplification but it's a meme and the need to be held accountable for it.

[Smalliebigs]

I'm not suggesting that the MSA proposed this. I just know that some will never be happy until that happens, which is going to be never. I of course have some issues with the "catch my limit" crowd, but I'm starting to become almost equally troubled with the extremes on the other side. Not the MSA folks, but the "nothing will be good enough until no one can keep a smallmouth, ever" crowd. It's a fine ideal, as it goes. Most of us would never keep one ourselves, and it baffles the mind to imagine someone else doing so. But it's also totally unrealistic, and makes smallmouth management way harder to discuss than it should be. There is a lot of middle ground that can't even be broached by those too far on one side or the other.

I like the last sentence of your post. I think it's totally fair to believe that this could go further. I am thinking of several river sections that I wish had been included, and I don't doubt there are a whole host. I think recognizing progress is important while still continuing to work to expand it.

So you would never keep a Smallmouth and it baffles your mind that anyone else ever would keep a smallmouth but, you have problems with people who want tighter regs and more enforcement of tighter regs for Smallmouth???......Hmmmmmm

I know one thing for sure.......with all of this accurate scientific data from tagging studies from the flowing water in the middle of the streams and the opinions of the MSA I for one am keeping as many Smallmouth Bass as I can with in the guise of the new laws on the stream I am on. I am going to put a beat down on some small streams, the data says it will make the streams have a much more balanced population of fish....right???

The freezer will be full downstairs.....plus I have a new fryer ....yummy.....I can't wait to see the future on some of these streams

[ollie]

and of course no mention at all for the streams in SWMO. I guess we don't matter over here.

[ozark trout fisher]

So you would never keep a Smallmouth and it baffles your mind that anyone else ever would keep a smallmouth but, you have problems with people who want tighter regs and more enforcement of tighter regs for Smallmouth???......Hmmmmmm

I know one thing for sure.......with all of this accurate scientific data from tagging studies from the flowing water in the middle of the streams and the opinions of the MSA I for one am keeping as many Smallmouth Bass as I can with in the guise of the new laws on the stream I am on. I am going to put a beat down on some small streams, the data says it will make the streams have a much more balanced population of fish....right???

The freezer will be full downstairs.....plus I have a new fryer ....yummy.....I can't wait to see the future on some of these streams

I don't have anything further to say, Smalliebigs. By your own admission, it's clear you've stopped thinking in terms of solutions and only in terms of the demise of the resource. That's a real bummer, and I say that with totally honesty. I see that from a lot of people who care about various aspects of natural resources (and yes, there are issues that make folks just as angry and bitter as smallie regulations) and who otherwise would be valuable assets. It always makes me sad, and to a certain degree I get it. Any effort involving conservation, in any arena, is usually thankless, and maybe, given climate change and other factors we can't control, hopeless. But I can't think of any other way I'd rather spend my mental and physical energy.

But at the end of the day you can't pay attention to that kind of talk. You have to go on.

[Guest]

deleted

[Gavin]

Guess we all need to travel north for awesome smallmouth fishing! MDC eats 1/8th of a cent out of most of my expenditures but they have no vision! The research is what it is but they have not asked good questions. Seems like the questions were focused on what is OK vs what is Awesome! Setting the bar low for some reason.

[Brian Jones]

Great news; especially for upper Big. Thanks to Dan and the rest of the SMA members for all your hard work.

[Al Agnew]

Guess we all need to travel north for awesome smallmouth fishing! MDC eats 1/8th of a cent out of most of my expenditures but they have no vision! The research is what it is but they have not asked good questions. Seems like the questions were focused on what is OK vs what is Awesome! Setting the bar low for some reason.

And that's the big problem I see...it's like they simply don't think things could get much better than they are now. Yep, they've done some good things, and although I don't know the current head of the smallmouth program, I did know that Kevin Meneau, the head of the program when the first SMAs were instituted, cared a whole lot about river smallmouth. But the higher ups seem to have a bias against doing anything that is even close to out of the box thinking and experimentation. I simply don't understand the apparent bias toward maximizing harvest, especially when their surveys show that catch and keep anglers are actually a fairly small minority.

I've said this before, too...I suspect a lot of the resistance to experimental regulations is driven by the enforcement people, who much prefer the simplest regulations possible so they don't have to deal with so many people who don't know (or pretend they don't know) the regulations.

Oh, what I wouldn't give for just one stretch of river with excellent potential for big smallmouth that was under a 14-20 inch slot, closure to catch and keep from October to Memorial Day, and no gigging allowed...and serious enforcement. Just one, for five years, just to see what would happen.