MDC Public Comment Meetings - Part 2

[Mitch f]

What happened in the last couple months that made quality smallmouth go from rare enough to need special, stricter regs to waayyyy more abundant than MDC realizes? 

 

It's as if they are resigning themselves to the fact that that a 20" smallmouth is an unachievable goal, that's why. We know different.  I've never seen a 100-year-old man as healthy as some of these 20 inchers that I find. 

[Brian Jones]

I attended the open house at Farmington.  IMO, the meeting appeared to be rather poorly attended.  But I had my back to the door for most of the evening so there may have been more people pass through than I thought.  Initially, I left the meeting feeling pretty good about things.  However after I spent some time pondering what I was told, as well as talking to a buddy who attended the meeting at Powder Valley, I am leaning towards Joe, Wrench, and smallies opinions in regards to these meetings.  I WILL give the MDC the benefit of the doubt though until I see the final changes if in fact there are any........  Below are the praises/concerns I shared at the meeting and the responses I was given.

1.  Expanding TSA on Big River to Council Bluff:  Thanked the MDC for proposing this.  Shared with them about how stopping the TSA at Leadwood put a lot of catch and keep pressure on the upper most part of the river.  The biologist who is responsible for upper Big River agreed and admitted that they have only recently realized what a tremendous fishery the upper section is and could be in the future.  

2.  Changing the length and creel limits on stream bass statewide to something other than 12"/6 fish rule:  Would make little difference according to the MDC as most fishermen already practice catch and release................ 

3.  Protection for the smallmouth bass that winter in upper Clearwater Lake:  Shared concerns that since Clearwater has no minimum length limit these fish were potentially vulnerable.  MDC seemed to be of the opinion that protection is not needed since very few anglers fish during the winter months and the ones who do are not keeping these fish.  In fact, I was told by the Conservation Agent who works that area that of the people he has checked during the winter months, none have ever kept any bass....

4.  Expanding the Meramec TSA down to Onondaga Cave:  The MDC biologist that I was speaking with doesn't work the Meramec and suggested I contact the biologist in charge of the Meramec.  

5.  Spotted bass problem on the middle and lower Gasconade:  Again, the biologist I was talking to had little knowledge of the Gasconade.  I did share with him the pic of the meanmouth that I recently caught and he confirmed that's what it was.  He told me that interbreeding occurs when the Spotted Bass are first colonizing and seems to taper off after they get established.  He referred me to a biologist from the Lebanon office who was at the meeting and I talked to him for quite a while.  I shared with him my concerns about the growing number of spots on the Gasconade below Jerome and how I am afraid that they could become as big of a problem on that river as they have in the Meramec watershed.  He didn't seem too concerned but told me that they would be looking into it.  He shared with me that his shockings on the upper river (nearly 80 to 100 miles upstream from where I am catching them) are not turning up any spots.  I politely replied that if they wait until then to do something about them that it will be FAR too late on the lower river.  I also referenced how just because there are very few spots in the Upper Meramec as compared to the lower doesn't mean that the lower part of the river doesn't have a problem.  He really didn't have a reply.  

6.  Keeping the 18 inch MLL on the Gasconade from Riddle Bridge to Jerome:  This was one of the most bizarre answers that I have ever been given.  According to a biologist from the Lebanon office, the 18 inch MLL causes the MDC to receive a ton of complaints from anglers who fish this section of river and don't catch an 18 incher.  It seems that there is some preconceived notion by anglers that fishing this section of river automatically guarantees that anglers will catch an 18 inch or bigger smallmouth.  When this doesn't happen, they call the local MDC office and raise ten kinds of hades.  Dropping the MLL to 15 inches will give anglers a better chance of catching a "trophy" and therefore end a lot of complaints they are currently getting from disgruntled anglers who are apparently fishing these trophy waters  unsuccessfully...............

7.  Illegal gigging problem:  This is all in our heads.  Giggers don't specifically target game fish and in fact foul hooked fish caught by law abiding anglers during the summer months have more impact on stream bass mortality than giggers........................  Sure there are some game fish that get accidentally stuck and shaken off a fork, but there really isn't much the MDC can do about that................................................

8.  Lack of enforcement of codes and lack of Law Enforcement presence:  I didn't bring this topic up at the Farmington meeting but a buddy of mine specifically asked a rather proud Conservation Agent at Powder Valley why he never sees any game wardens on the river anymore.    The agent responded that just because we can't see them doesn't mean that they're not there.......To that, my buddy responded, "So by watching me from the woods you are able to know whether I have a valid fishing permit and that I do not have any illegal fish in my livewell?"  The conservation Agent had no answer.  My buddy also brought up the gigging problem.  The Conservation Agent threw out the deer season excuse.  I understand that they have their hands full during this time.  But in reality, a MAJORITY of their calls during deer season come during the 11 day firearms season.  Gigging season is three months...............

Personally, in 25 years of having to purchase hunting and fishing licenses, I have only been checked three times. Once in 1995 on Mineral Fork as we were floating by the Hwy 47 bridge.  Once Labor Day weekend 2001 on the Meramec just up from Meramec State Park.  The Conservation Agent was actually in a jet boat and was patrolling the river.  The last time I was checked was in April 2007 on the Gasconade at the MDC Jerome Access as my wife and I were taking out.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Greasy B]

its disheartening that uninformed fishermen with unrealistic expectations get the attention of MDC by whinning about not catching fish >18. I guess I should have been calling a dozen times a year thanking them for giving me a I short stretch of river with a reasonable chance to catch a >18  

Your concern about spots in the middle gasconade is very real. I caught more this season than I ever had despite not fishing as much. 

[Oldschoolcane]

Dan, thanks for the updates! 

 

Tim

[Mitch f]

7.  Illegal gigging problem:  This is all in our heads.  Giggers don't specifically target game fish and in fact foul hooked fish caught by law abiding anglers during the summer months have more impact on stream bass mortality than giggers........................  Sure there are some game fish that get accidentally stuck and shaken off a fork, but there really isn't much the MDC can do about that...............................................

Not sure how you come up with that conclusion??? Do you have evidence of this? Do you think we are making this stuff up for our own enjoyment? After every gigging season, we find dead bass, large ones. 

[Brian Jones]

Not sure how you come up with that conclusion??? Do you have evidence of this? Do you think we are making this stuff up for our own enjoyment? After every gigging season, we find dead bass, large ones. 

Mitch:  That was more/less what I was told by an MDC biologist and verified by a conservation agent.  I should've added quotation marks so that you would've known those weren't my words.  I KNOW you guys aren't making this stuff up.  I've seen the evidence myself.

[Mitch f]

Sorry man, I should've known it was satire....my bad 

[fishinwrench]

  The agent responded that just because we can't see them doesn't mean that they're not there....

Pfffft!   Whatever.  Those dudes haven't been more than 50 yards from their truck in the entre time they have been employed by MDC.   They are afraid they might get into stick-tights or pick up a tick.

[timinmo]

One of the arguments about the different length limits is that it is "confusing to anglers".  I do not understand how they can say this with a straight face.  Smallmouth do not have a Red Ribbon, Blue Ribbon, White Ribbon areas like trout areas.  I am not trying to take anything away from trout just using for the sake of argument. I will note that certain trout areas have gigging restrictions and if gigging is not a problem why would that be necessary. Compared to Waterfowl regulations River rules are simple.  The "antler point" restrictions for some areas during deer season are much harder to follow. Personally I have always found it hard to "shoot and release".

[MOsmallies]

One of the arguments about the different length limits is that it is "confusing to anglers".  I do not understand how they can say this with a straight face.  Smallmouth do not have a Red Ribbon, Blue Ribbon, White Ribbon areas like trout areas.  I am not trying to take anything away from trout just using for the sake of argument. I will note that certain trout areas have gigging restrictions and if gigging is not a problem why would that be necessary. Compared to Waterfowl regulations River rules are simple.  The "antler point" restrictions for some areas during deer season are much harder to follow. Personally I have always found it hard to "shoot and release".

Tim you bring up some great points!!! One of the biggest issues I have with the MDC is that they really seem to care more about protecting non-native, stocked trout than protecting native smallmouth... It makes ZERO sense to me. The biologist Mitch and I talked with at Powder Valley mentioned several times that it's difficult for the agents in certain counties to patrol the rivers often because they have to patrol the trout parks. My jaw hit the floor. Why are we protecting 8 inch fish that came out of a hatchery 2 days prior while native smallmouth that have very slow growth rates are being poached throughout the Ozarks.