The Oregon Standoff

[Flysmallie]

 

I don't think any of us truly know what's going on. But we should all be smart enough to realize that Bundy is a loose cannon. The boy has been looking for a gunfight for a long time and sooner or later he's going to get one. And it's going to SUCK. I feel sorry for the retards that are going to go down with him.

[Chief Grey Bear]

4 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

  Is this gal making any good points, or is she a crackpot ?   I can't tell.

 

Yeah she's a nut. I didn't even make it a full minute into it to know she was one of them that just happen to be on the outside. 

 

[SpoonDog]

Nice Hatches magazine article on the Malheur standoff.

 

Some interesting points from the article:

 

"It’s important to note that, upon statehood, western states signed away any claims to unclaimed land, Oregon included. Most public land in Oregon has never been “owned” by anyone (although a compelling case for ownership of the refuge and the surrounding forest could be made on behalf of the Burns Paiute Indian tribe) but the feds. "

 

" Last March, the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Bureau of Land Management raised their grazing fees as required by Congress (yes, the same Republican Congress that starves the budgets of the Forest Service and the BLM, continually tries to float the idea of public land privatization through government channels and disregards overwhelming public sentiment supporting the one, true birthright every American enjoys—a stake in public real estate) to a whopping $1.69 per animal unit (a cow and a calf)...In 2014, when the feds rounded up his herd and tried to collect $1 million in unpaid grazing fees accumulated during Cliven’s twenty-plus years of failure to pay (remember, these grazing fees aren’t onerous, they’re generous—and are a mere fraction of the average $20.10 per animal unit charged by private landholders in the Western U.S.), the Bundys called in their anti-government brethren and forced an armed standoff with BLM agents. "

 

I dunno that I can run into McDonalds and get a burger for $1.69, and looks like I could float grazing fees for two dozen cows on what's in the change drawer on my dresser.  How is it these guys are getting screwed?  Heck, they probably could've paid what they owe with the gas money they used getting to Oregon in the first place.  A million dollars in unpaid grazing fees at $1.69 a cow-calf pair?  If I owe a million dollars on my farm the bank will come and take my farm- not because they're terrible people, but because I'm a terrible businessman.  The guy's not anti-government, he's anti-responsibility. 

 

 

[fishinwrench]

There has to be more at the heart of this than the unwillingness to pay 1.69 per head of cattle.   

I ain't buying it.  

 

Who holds the job of driving out there once a month to count cows?    Gimme a friggin' break.

[Brian Sloss]

Most likely they self report the amount of cattle they are running on BLM land.  The BLM probably does a random check every now and then when ranches round up cattle.  That is just a guess.  In the outfitter business we self report our activity to the forest service. On rare occasion the forest service will have someone count outfitter canoes on a given Sat at a particular access.  When we turn in our logs, quarterly, they cross check what they counted.  If there I a significant difference in the count and the log (not just a couple canoes), they will contact us.  I have never had a big difference in count with them, but I bet they would talk with me if there was. 

[Brian Sloss]

Looks like the arrests have started, but not without gunfire.  One militia member dead and another injured, six in custody including Ammon Bundy.

[Mark]

I guess this is about as good of ending as we could have hoped. Sorry one man had to lose his life. I found it ironic that none of the men arrested were from Oregon. I did keep an open mind on the situation until I learned the facts. These men did not have a leg to stand on - they were wrong from the get go.

[Kayak_Runner]

On 1/23/2016 at 0:15 PM, fishinwrench said:

There has to be more at the heart of this than the unwillingness to pay 1.69 per head of cattle.   

I ain't buying it.  

 

Who holds the job of driving out there once a month to count cows?    Gimme a friggin' break.

....easy you might run the county out of tinfoil....

 

These guys have been doing this for decades....they have no concept of public ownership of land. 

I understand that running cattle can be hard requiring upwards of 2 acres per cow/calf pair, but these guys only care about there own problem....they don't care about land in public trust, your right, my right, or anyone else right to that land. They don't care about management of the resource/wildlife for long term use. Could you imagine if you decided to graze cattle next to them on public land.....I'm sure that would turn out well too....

On top of that you have these dick-shine militia morons that see a chance to fight "oppression", and make the move that "I have a gun, I want it this way, anyone that doesn't like it can shoot-it out with me"....give me a break. 

It's sad that someone lost their life over blind-stupid-stubbornness and a false sense of patriotism, and I hope that it's the end of it and the remaining occupiers go home safely. 

 

[Flysmallie]

2 minutes ago, Kayak_Runner said:

It's sad that someone lost their life over blind-stupid-stubbornness and a false sense of patriotism, and I hope that it's the end of it and the remaining occupiers go home safely. 

 

It's only sad because they were stupid enough to think that a gunfight with law enforcement was an option. That never ends well. There is nothing you can do or say for the LEO to say "Oh don't worry about it, I was out of line and you shooting at me resolved everything". They shoot unarmed kids, they aren't going to take kindly to someone actually firing a shot at them.

Just cleansing of the gene pool.

[fishinwrench]

I listened to two live streams for awhile last night.  I'd say it isn't over quite yet.  

There appears to be two kinds of people involved.  One group of morons who just want to fight about ANYTHING.  And another group who seems pretty intelligent and still feels that the feds have acted unconstitutionally from the start.  

The media appears to be dead set on only reporting the actions/words of the crazy idiots.    Somewhere at the bottom of this is probably just cause, but a bunch of radical knuckleheads are going to prevent any good coming from any of it.