These are not gigged bass

[grizzly]

This topic is very repetitive on this forum and it is apparent that neither sides will ever agree.  I would have to imagine that regular pole and line anglers affect our smallmouth population than gigging simply because more people fish with pole and line as opposed to gigging.  Enforcement of the wildlife code has always been an issue in Missouri, it's comparable to traffic violations as there are so many highways and so few cops to enforce those breaking the speed limit.  What is one to do?  I think the MDC needs to hire more people to enforce the regulations.  Merely putting words on paper lacks any substantial impact as those who posses an utter disregard for the law will continue to conduct these activities until they are caught.  

I hope they catch these bastards.  

[Al Agnew]

Can we please get off the questioning whether or not it hurts "the population"?  No, it doesn't harm the overall population anything like legal and probably illegal pole and line fishing.  BUT...the fact is that giggers can and do specifically target the biggest bass.  Those are the fish that already make up the smallest percentage of the population but are the MOST likely to be gigged.  We complain about the doofus who illegally catches and keeps smallmouth under the 12 inch limit, but the truth is that those fish are often so numerous that taking a few of them illegally doesn't affect the population in any way.  But if a bigger goes to a good wintering pool and sticks three or four 18 inch plus smallies, it most definitely removes a significant percentage of the big smallies in that pool at that time and in a much longer stretch of river the next summer.  So while it means practically nothing to the population as a whole, it has a huge impact on the very small but very valuable portion of the population that is made up of the biggest fish.

That's what bugs us who fish in the winter and see this stuff.  We see big smallies that may have been caught multiple times and released throughout their lives and have finally grown to trophy size, making it through one more summer of growth, and then being slaughtered illegally the next winter when they are the easiest to find and most vulnerable.  We see a significant percentage of those we catch and release in the winter having fresh gig scars, and imagine how many did not survive that same gigger, whether or not we see them lying dead in the water or at the ramp.

So comparing this to other kinds of poaching is comparing apples to oranges.  No other kind of poaching CAN specifically target big fish.  The best pole and line poacher can't catch more than a few big ones in a year, but the illegal gigger can and does kill that many in one night.

[jdmidwest]

22 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Boy they're good at it too.  Stuck every one of them right on the dorsal.  

Whoever did that gets alot of practice, so he should know the difference between a sucker and a bass by now.

Good at stabbing them.  But they had poor eyesight.  They had to wait to the pull out to id and cull them out.

[SpoonDog]

9 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

  We see a significant percentage of those we catch and release in the winter having fresh gig scars, and imagine how many did not survive that same gigger, whether or not we see them lying dead in the water or at the ramp.

So comparing this to other kinds of poaching is comparing apples to oranges.  No other kind of poaching CAN specifically target big fish.  The best pole and line poacher can't catch more than a few big ones in a year, but the illegal gigger can and does kill that many in one night.

Love ya Al, but you guys want MDC to pull resources away from crimes which are actually happening so they can look for crimes you imagine are happening?  Because when you catch a winter fish with fresh gig scars you  assume someone must of kept five or ten or fifteen more?  I'm not sure that's the way law enforcement works. 

 

And I just don't buy the line gigging's the only way to target big fish when smallies spawn the way they do and when you guys go out to these wintering holes for the express, singular purpose of targeting big fish.  What is the percentage of fish caught and released with fresh gig scars, and how poorly are they doing if they're willing to grab your lure?

 

The last week of gigging season there's four dead bass at a boat ramp, and that sucks.  Whoever did it ought to be held accountable.  But as much water as has been in the Big this winter, how representative is that of what goes on on a daily or weekly basis?

[mjk86]

Guess its worth a mention than if you take a look at this guys other recent post....he and his friend are doing quite well with very nice fish on that same stretch...so ill have to conclude that there are still plenty of big ones to be caught.  Nice catchin BTW Mr. Jones!!  You fellas are on em!

[Dan Kreher]

11 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

Can we please get off the questioning whether or not it hurts "the population"?  No, it doesn't harm the overall population anything like legal and probably illegal pole and line fishing.  BUT...the fact is that giggers can and do specifically target the biggest bass.  Those are the fish that already make up the smallest percentage of the population but are the MOST likely to be gigged.  We complain about the doofus who illegally catches and keeps smallmouth under the 12 inch limit, but the truth is that those fish are often so numerous that taking a few of them illegally doesn't affect the population in any way.  But if a bigger goes to a good wintering pool and sticks three or four 18 inch plus smallies, it most definitely removes a significant percentage of the big smallies in that pool at that time and in a much longer stretch of river the next summer.  So while it means practically nothing to the population as a whole, it has a huge impact on the very small but very valuable portion of the population that is made up of the biggest fish.

That's what bugs us who fish in the winter and see this stuff.  We see big smallies that may have been caught multiple times and released throughout their lives and have finally grown to trophy size, making it through one more summer of growth, and then being slaughtered illegally the next winter when they are the easiest to find and most vulnerable.  We see a significant percentage of those we catch and release in the winter having fresh gig scars, and imagine how many did not survive that same gigger, whether or not we see them lying dead in the water or at the ramp.

So comparing this to other kinds of poaching is comparing apples to oranges.  No other kind of poaching CAN specifically target big fish.  The best pole and line poacher can't catch more than a few big ones in a year, but the illegal gigger can and does kill that many in one night.

Once again, Al encapsulates the primary concern that conservation-minded, or even those anglers who choose to keep their LEGAL limit of river bass, should all share. Gigging of game fish such as bass is indeed a "problem" whenever and wherever adult bass are taken by these unscrupulous perpetrators illegally. It may not be a widespread problem affecting a stream's overall population of bass, but, with a gigger's ability to target larger adult fish in concentrated numbers as they are found in selected areas in the winter, it can sure put a smackdown on a sizeable stretch of water.

Again, it is a major frustration of those who look to improve the resource, practice catch and release, educate the angling public on the slow growth of river smalliles, etc. that a handful of A-holes can undermine all of our best intentions in just one gigging season or Saturday night.  

No real solutions will likely be found here but pretending like this stuff doesn't happen with abundant evidence to the contrary is not productive either. We end up arguing with each other rather than coming up with any sort of coordinated effort to combat this issue. 

Report such situations on a timely basis to the MDC whenever you see them. At some point we will  need to elevate this issue to a high enough priority with regulatory authorities to have it adequately addressed. The MDC has made many attempts to educate giggers with appropriate signage at river access points (I'll post some examples here when I get a chance) but more needs to be done.

 

 

 

[MOsmallies]

2 hours ago, SpoonDog said:

you guys want MDC to pull resources away from crimes which are actually happening so they can look for crimes you imagine are happening?

Yep just in our imaginations!

[mreed81]

If you want to take care of dirty, poaching giggers for good you have to take extreme measures like the guy in this video suggests.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSFZktZNySg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Jones]

On 2/7/2016 at 9:04 AM, Chief Grey Bear said:

Have those streams experienced a population decline solely from illegal gigging? If so, let's see the data. 

Chief:  Big River is one of the best rivers on this side of the state so I doubt that losing these four bass will have a major affect on the overall population.  The point is that the MDC REFUSES to accept that there is a problem with illegal gigging; regardless of how many pictures they are presented with proving the opposite.    

On 2/7/2016 at 9:05 AM, Chief Grey Bear said:

We are just beating on the MDC.

Please don't take this post as me beating on the MDC.  I AM NOT part of the "Senator Munzlinger "F" the MDC" crowd.  As a lifelong resident of this state, I've seen first hand MANY of the great things the MDC has done.  However, they are not perfect and looking the other way instead of addressing a problem is not acceptable.  I'd love to see the MDC be as vigilant in the pursuit of illegal giggers as they are in the pursuit of those who poach whitetails, turkeys, elk, eagles, etc. 

On 2/7/2016 at 9:49 AM, Chief Grey Bear said:

Out of curiosity, tell me how you set up the sting operation? 

I don't know Chief.  Maybe some checkpoints near popular gigging accesses?  Maybe some law enforcement presence at the accesses.  Maybe an electrofishing boat outfitted with some lights and a couple of MDC agents on the water posing as giggers themselves?  I'm not so naive to think that the MDC can stop all illegal activity.  But I do believe that a more significant law enforcement presence would deter the majority.  In nearly 25 years of fishing our state's rivers, I've been checked by a conservation agent three times.  Of the three, two of them was holiday weekends and only one of them was actually on the water; away from an access.  Contact with an agent once every 8 years is not what I would consider a Law enforcement presence.   

On 2/7/2016 at 10:16 AM, SpoonDog said:

I appreciate your guys' passion for the resource, but MDC's never taken the position bass gigging doesn't happen and we've all seen the photos from the citations they issue. 

Maybe not officially Spoon, but I was told by a MDC biologist at the Smallmouth Management open house in Farmington last fall that illegal gigging WAS NOT a problem.  And his statement was backed up by a MDC agent from Southeast Missouri, and an agent from Franklin County told my friend the exact same thing the very next evening at Powder Valley. So there is- at the very least- a consensus among some MDC personnel that illegal gigging isn't a problem.  And yes, we've all seen the photos from the "Big Bust" last year on Little Black River.  The MDC made sure that every news outlet in the region ran the story.  But how many others are doing the same thing and not getting caught?  The fact that the MDC made such a big deal about it tells me that busts like these don't happen for them very often.  

 

[MOsmallies]

Very well said Brian!! I couldn't agree with you more!