Replica Mounts

[Smithvillesteve]

Nice story VJMAC. Congrats on a beautiful fish. I just want Stockton to be the best bass fishery we can make it. I've been to Table Rock twice this year and we caught a lot of Kentuckies. The majority of our fish were Kentuckies. They are taking that lake over. They are fun to catch. Fight like a freight train!! I'm just concerned what they are doing to our Large Mouth population. All interesting points Walcrabass. Love the idea of making the Kentucky its own category. Put a 12" minimum on them and let people harvest those fish. Love the Lunker Program idea too. Why is Missouri so slow to change? 

[Walcrabass]

Smithville Steve and others,

Why is Missouri so slow to change??? Part of it is because of as a state we couldn't even make up our mind if we were for the North or the South. Just seems to be that mentality of people in this area.

Part of it ( well OK almost all of it ) MONEY !!! Money that the guides on lakes like Table Rock receive from their clients for "catching fish". If you want to call it "catching fish" when almost everything you catch is 14.75" and less in length. Not much of a thrill in my book.

Money that spurs many of our tournament anglers to fish. I can honestly say that if a tournament was held where your entry fee was just enough to cover dinner after the tournament for all the anglers that there would not be much of a turn out by this group. They want every POSSIBLE CHANCE to catch a keeper ......even if it means ruining the overall genetics and general population of the fish in the lake. Just as long as their stringer is the biggest everything is going well. Even if the STRINGER SIZE IN GENERAL IS DWINGLING !!!

Also the money required to institute new programs like a "Lunker Program". After all we have a huge amount of retirement money to pay to the employees that work for different organizations in this state. Gotta make sure all that is taken care of first you know. Kind of weird that in this day and age where so many tax payers have no retirement program furnished to them by their employers that their TAX DOLLARS can support OTHER PEOPLES RETIREMENT !!.

And last but not least.............................  MONEY!!!!

OK, are we clear as to my stance on this problem???

Wall-concerned for the fish- but not in charge of their well being- or the finances to help them-crabass

P.S. Just want everyone reading this that I have spoken to many, many anglers about this growing problem and without hesitation ALL OF THEM that are not guides or tournament fisherman believe that we need to do something about the Kentuckies in Missouri Lakes.

[MOPanfisher]

While it certainly doesn't bother to put a shorter limit on K's or a slot limit whatever.  but to think that lowering the MLL on them or removing it completely for that matter is going to decimate the population, well it just ain't gonna happen.  Will it provide more keepable/fillettable bass for anglers to keep sure, will it make a major change in the population dynamics nope.  Just not that many bass fishermen who would keep bass regardless of the MLL.  TR for some reason seems to have a very good fishery for K's and Smallies as well, don't know if its just because they maybe have been there longer or were better established or what, or maybe I just look at the photos from their forum with all the nice LM's, K's and SMs and only see the that side of it.  I haven't seen any data that says they are different genetically.  No reservoir stays the same throughout its lifecycle, some species that were very common slowly dwindle while others move in to take their place.  K's seem to be a place taker, being very adaptable, and hardy.  As for the lunker program, if the state doesn't raise LM bass why would they want to pay you (by trading you a replica mount) for catching one.  I am not aware of the State raising any Bass in their warm water hatcheries, primarily it is Paddlefish, Walleye, and Hybrids with maybe some Catfish but not sure to be honest. 

[dprice]

Pa fisher  are you considering recommending  lowering the Kentucky size and creel? And possibly thinking add to our walleye populations and crappie  populations? 

because  this could be a  second  thought to improve the voters and fee payers  interests 

if this is a thought  I could be good with this one also ? 

kentuckies are a aggressive fish no doubt but they are thriving on the black and brownies 

they are far more suited for deeper clearer rockier impoundments

 

 

[Walcrabass]

MoPanfisher,

  The reason that TR seems to be a great place for the Kentuckies ( and Smallies ) is because we keep PUTTING THEM BACK TO BREED MORE !!! If you will go through some of the past posts you will find info that tells that our Kentuckies DEFINITELY are not the same as those in the South for example. The difference??? Ours don't weigh 7 pounds !!!! As far as people not keeping them to eat...... it is because the CAN'T !!!! THEY ARE TOO SMALL FOR THE REGULATIONS WE NOW HAVE !!!! The fishermen I have spoken to would GLADLY EAT THEM, IF THEY COULD !!! Concerning the population dynamics....... the Kentuckies have went from 3% of the bass population when the lake was first filled to about 28% and that does not count the crossbreeds. Why??? WE KEEP PUTTING THEM BACK TO BREED !!!! if a farmer kept all of his red calves and sold, butchered, all of his white calves don't you think that in 30 years he would have a greater percentage of RED CATTLE???? The fact of the matter is that the Kentuckies breed at even less than this 12" we keep talking about. But 12" is far better than 15" ( because the vast majority of them DIE before they ever get there. Wow... an entire life of breeding and filling the lake with offspring and virtually no chance of ever being removed from the waters.)

Our state does raise some Bass. In fact I have known of them to release their old breeders for the kids to catch at certain events. We just don't have a program to genetically improve their size like some other states. We are behind guys. We are being backwards. We are being dumb. We are being greedy where the money is concerned. Do your part to bring the Missouri Bass to a new ( actually an old ) level and beyond. Call and write your Conservation people. Tell the people taking surveys on these Kentuckies to help us control them with better regulations. AND when you do catch one that is legal..... have a fish fry !!!!

Walcrabass

[MOPanfisher]

Come on walcrabass don't hold back say it how you feel.  I have seen many posts stating that Kentucky here are different from others further south but have not seen any data to that affect my or your belief is not data.  The fact that southern fish have many more months of active feeding , could have something to do with size.  As for the cattle thing that's just funny,  its not even same thing,  besides the fact that the population dynamics dictate that it would have no appreciable affect on spotted bass population,. and if that species is better suited to reproduction and survival than LM they are simply going to reproduce sufficiently enough that it would have no real effect.  Truly I have no problem what so ever lowering or removing the MLL on spotted bass, it wouldn't make a difference to me at all, when I want a fish fry I will probably choose a different fish.  For the most part states that have lowered or removed the MLL on spots have done so to appease fishermen not really expecting fishermen to be able to have any serious affect on the population in a large resevoir.  Again not a problem as far as I am concerned catch and eat all the spotted bass you can, but don't think that it is going to turn the lake into a largemouth Mecca.   There are a lot of us who are active fishermen and don't give a hoot about LMB, I would rather catch white bass any day but that is my choice.   Note,  I am not against you, I am just willing to ask questions and have a conversation.  Beer, coffee and campfires are optional.

[Old plug]

The problem is fisheirng pressure. Some of you people on here give fishing reports telling where to go and what to do. I believe the purpose in all that is self promotion. You reap what you sow.

Walcrabass I am sorry I must have missed all the scientific and help you and strawhat have provided us less knowlegable fisherman with. Please repeat those so I can see them. 

[Flysmallie]

I haven't fished Stockton much in a couple of years. But I did fish it a lot from 1986 through that time. I never saw an increase in the spots. Never. I could go to areas and catch a bunch quickly, my kids liked that. But when I was bass fishing I rarely ran across any. It was mostly largemouth and smallmouth. Things must have changed quickly. Or I just fished in areas that they didn't care for. 

[Kramr]

Can the average fisherman (meaning those that fish for meat) reliably tell the difference between LM and spots? I know the difference and can still have trouble doing this.

[Walcrabass]

Guys,

  I am not computer literate enough to bring back all the discussions on the Kentuckies. I think if you would pm Straw Hat he will be able to help. He sent some things to me quite awhile ago and it was very good reading.

As far as the Cattle thing....... I am sorry but I am in severe disagreement. If you keep one species and throw back the other.... then the "other" will increase in numbers. That is why we have regulations.... if we didn't then species like Bass would suffer. I always remind people about when the length for Bass on Stockton was 11". At that time in my opinion there were a lot fewer of the bigger bass in the lake.

If you can't tell them apart..... look it up.... pretty easy....Jaw, Black spots on Belly, Dorsal Fin differences, Color Pattern.

For the States that have lowered the length for the Kentuckies to appease the fishermen...... great job !!!!! Smart Fishermen too !!!!!

I think it is too bad that such a small fish has such a large impact on our financial thinking.